Why are Engineered Studs so Expensive
I am gaining a ever increasing aversion to standard dimensional lumber and so gravitate towards the engineered alternatives. The two notable ones I see are TimberStrand LSL and Versa-Stud LVL. My online (public pricing) searches come up with:
1. DF/SPF 2x4x8 = $3-$4
2. TimberStrand LSL = $8
3. Versa-Stud LVL = $16
Oof!! We’re looking at twice the cost and FOUR TIMES the cost.
What I want to know is: WHY are the engineered versions so egregiously much more expensive than standard lumber?
Maybe the materials? But both are essentially made of “waste” materials mixed with some kind of glue. Kind of like OSB… and OSB is a notably cheap product for what you get. LVLs are closer to plywood… also relatively cheap, if you’re not getting hardwood based ones.
The processing? My understanding is that LSLs are made essentially like OSB sheets and LVLs closer to plywood sheets. That is, you gather up the raw material into a big “chunk”; mix with glue; put through a huge press and heater; and then slice it into the requires widths. That describes both OSB/plywood and LSL/LVL as far as I know.
As a thought experiment, let’s look at 15/32″ OSB at about $14/sheet. Laminate three of them together and you’d have a block that is 1-1/2″ thick by 4’x8′ for $42. Cut that into 13 strips of 1-1/2″ x 3-1/2″ x 8′ (2x4x8) for an individual cost of $3.23 — on the low end for even natural lumber.
I get how the studs would be more expensive than that since they would presumably be using better materials or glue… but TWICE or even FOUR TIMES the cost?
There is obviously a reason. Who knows what I’m missing here?
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Kurt,
Not trying to sound snarky, but you left out a few things with the OSB example. The permanently stable glue to hold the sheets together, the press to keep them tight while drying, the gang rip saw to make them into 2x4's and the certification to assure that they don't collapse under load.
I know it sounds like they are gouging (and probably are to some extent), but in our litigious world the price of verification of materials gets costed in. I do think the glue levels and types in OSB are quite different than say rimboard stock or even floor deck sheathing. Many are the mysteries of why TJIs don't turn to dust after a few decades and I won't be here to see if they last a hundred years. The flakes and strands used in engineered lumber are pretty specific in characteristics, as are the veneers used in LVL. While not from exactly prime lumber, the source materials are far from waste. Particle board and MDF are more of that category.
The two bys I have pulled out of older homes during remodeling make me weep for the forests we have devoured. Even the C grade plywood of the 60's would be to die for. The monoclonal forests of today grow fast and loose, so we get potato chip framing lumber. (dramatic overstatement)
If you are building for a living, ask yourself what the true costs are for having to remove and replace twisted walls or patch drywall failures. Once and done is generally best for the bottom line. At minimum, tall walls and kitchen cabinet walls are good places for engineered framing lumber. I dare say I wouldn't want to be trying to frame a roof with dimensional lumber these days, LVL and Glulams allow much more freedom. And assurance.
It might be nice to go back to the very old days when whole sections of trees were fitted together like twisty timber frame homes, some of those are now over 500 years old. I suspect that once sawmills gave us standardized lumber, the labor savings and speed overwhelmed other choices. Engineered framing is just another step. Maybe now some of the older trees will be left to remember what forests once were.
>"Maybe now some of the older trees will be left to remember what forests once were."
Maybe. One can hope. Or, the crop rotations will only grow shorter since chops sticks suffice for engineered wood and pulp products. Note: I'm not against pulp and waste products, especially since there will always be chop from nearly any harvest. But I do wonder if larger trees not being commercially desirable actually means large trees 'don't get cut' or whether it means they simply 'don't get grown'? I don't think there's one answer, as it depends on a lot of other factors.
My initial response to you, Kurt, was going to be something along the lines of 'because it's engineered!' There's a lot more processing involved—as Roger points out. But your comparison to plywood does make it interesting, because that would seemingly track a bit closer.
Higher quality plywood certainly gets (way) more expensive though. The cheaper plywood can afford to have voids since its a large sheet, where as the geometry and structural consideration for studs and joists don't allow that. So better materials and a more rigorous manufacturing process (and all that goes with that, like the engineering approvals, perhaps more expensive grading equipment, labor, etc). I'm just guessing--really not sure precisely what it comes down to.
Ah, yes, certification is almost surely a big reason. If you can verify the physical properties of the stud and then guarantee that they are all going to consistently hit that target, then you can get your product into Forte and the other SE design products.
As an aside, the fact that Simpson tests and certifies all of their connectors means that they're going to be in all structural design systems. I'm pretty certain that the SE for the house I'm building clicked a button up front that said "Choose a Simpson connector -- no matter how esoteric or seemingly unneeded -- whenever there is any structural questions whatsoever" and so the software just liberally sprinkled them all through the design...
Kurt,
Simpson hardware grows like a fungus on very house I build. I'm not knocking it - it's all very useful - but it just keeps popping up in more and more spots.
Maybe the materials? But both are essentially made of “waste” materials mixed with some kind of glue. Kind of like OSB… and OSB is a notably cheap product for what you get
Just to clarify: OSB strands (the "flakes" of the board) are not a waste product. The trees are specifically harvested for OSB (or other engineered wood products), and cut into the required strand shape. They're not just grabbing factory floor cuttings as a raw material.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwLz6M_N3HM&t=84s
There's plenty of science and chemistry in OSB and similar manufactured products... one smart wood scientist told me that OSB should be considered a 'family of products' rather than a monolithic product, in terms of its hygrothermal behavior. Just as a common example--Advantech vs. commodity OSB.
Yeah, "waste" was the wrong word to use. I was thinking in terms of how unusable those trees would be for traditional lumber, so they wouldn't be competing with traditional lumber for sourcing the raw material.
And thank you for the reminder about Advantech! Yes, I completely spaced on the fact that there is absolutely different grades of OSB.
If I re-do my back-of-the-envelope calculation for OSB-based ersatz studs but this time using Adventech 3/4" @ $36.55 a sheet, I end up with individual studs at $5.62 each. That's much closer to an LSL cost.
Simple. Volume.
TJIs were expansive unit they become standard, now it is cheaper than dimensional lumber.
A house might have 2 or 3 LVL/LSL beams in it, maybe a couple of long studs for tall walls but that is about it. Not a lot of volume there.
Yeah, there is definitely going to be relatively low volume for just beams or long studs. But I do see a number of houses these days (Matt Risinger's house, for instance) being built entirely of engineered studs -- no dimensional lumber at all.
If a D.R. Horten or Pulte ever decided to go 100% engineered in all of their homes, then the market would explode overnight.
But I guess that's a chicken and egg problem, then. The big players would never switch to 100% LSL or LVL when they are so much more expensive but how can the price go significantly down if they remain just a niche product.
Regarding beams, it's also a factor of what is the competition? For large spans where dimensional lumber simply won't work, you can either use a truss, which requires height that is often not available, or steel, which for residential work is often expensive and most builders don't like working with it. So engineered lumber fits a niche, at an appropriate cost on the supply/demand curve.
Another way to look at it is how much of an increase to frame the entire house out of LSL. Maybe a few thousand dollars in material cost if that, over hundreds of thousands of dollars for total project cost which is generally less than 1% cost increase. It's really minimal. The flip side is, there is far less material waste and labor time as you're not constantly picking through the pile looking for straight lumber. I framed half of my house with LSL. If I ever do another, it will be all LSL. Not worth the headache of dimensional lumber anymore.
Thanks! I've been trying to decide whether to start only specifying LSL and your comment really put me over the edge!
The short answer is because the free market as decided that is what they are worth.
If they cost any more the industry would choose an alternative product and or another supplier would open a new plant and drive down the price.
If they charged any less and made less money the stock price would fall management would be replaced or the plant closed.
In most cases the cost of the inputs of production, have almost no bearing on the price of the finished product. The classic example is a loaf of bread and the cost of wheat. A $6.00 loaf of artisan bread at the hipster bakery has 3 cents worth of wheat in it.
Walta
My next house will probably have a few pocket doors. Paste experience tells me this is one area where LVLs will save a lot of headache. I'd like to use them for all the framing (and may price it out), but I don't know that the builder or framer will offer a break on the labor. And labor is such a big piece of modern construction costs.
because they are for high end builds and high end customers are willing to pay the premium for dead straight walls, imho