VOCs in cabinetry conversion varnish
Hello – we are building a home (Zone 4C) and I asked the cabinet maker for a data sheet on the paint they will be using. It is a Rudd conversion varnish with a VOC level of ~500 g/L (<0.1% formaldehyde by weight). That seemed high to me, so I looked up the maximum allowable in the U.S. for conversion varnishes, and it’s 725 g/L. I also searched for the VOC level of conversion varnishes sold by Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams, and their VOC levels were comparable to Rudd. Should I be concerned? I definitely would be if I were working in their industrial shop, though think it should be OK once the paint is dry and the cabinets are installed into our home? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Mike,
By definition, VOCs are volatile. That means that they evaporate relatively quickly. The VOCs in varnish will evaporate, so the usual method -- open a few windows (or operate the ventilation system) and wait a few days -- satisfies the vast majority of homeowners.
A very small minority of homeowners call themselves "chemically sensitive." If you are in that category, all bets are off.
-- Martin Holladay
I think i am one of those people unfortunately! Any suggestions to further decrease vocs? Thanks
>"Any suggestions to further decrease vocs?"
Use only unpainted glass, metal, and stone (concrete counts) materials. Mineral coloring agents in cementicious finishes are non-volatile, if "limestone gray" concrete doesn't quite fit your decor.
Even unfinished wood and living trees emit VOCs, as do leather and natural plant fibers.
Don't know about varnish, but I had a cabinet (made in China) that smelled of VOC for over a decade.... I should just throw it in the trash.
Thank you Martin. Here is also a good article from the EPA that I found on the subject (below). Formaldehyde apparently is the most problematic VOC in the mix, that takes a few months for most of it's off-gassing to occur. We won't be moving in that quickly so should be OK.
One can Google this for the link: Indoor Emissions from Conversion Varnishes EPA
Mike,
Thanks. Here is the link: "Indoor Emissions from Conversion Varnishes"
-- Martin Holladay
I am having a similar issue with vocs with my bathroom vanity made by Bertch. Supposedly they are a green friendly company. They use oil based finshes and a conversion varnish. I am chemical sensitive and i still smell that chemical scent and the vanity has been up three weeks. My nose and eyes feel irritated. I have a wi ndow open and am running a fan. I was told most of the off gasing has occurred during production Am trying to be patient Any thoughts on how long it will take to completely subside? I am ready to have it taken out.
The best way to deal with VOC is heat. Getting it up to 45C (space heater in a closed room) for a couple of hours would help drive out the solvents, the longer and hotter the better. This works great with MDF/veneer construction, but might warp real wood if the temperature is too high.
Still leave window(s) open?
I’d leave the window open a crack. If you open the window a lot, you probably won’t be able to maintain the elevated temperature in the space. Two things are working to get those volatile solvents out: 1- the elevated temperature helps the process to go faster and, 2- keeping the concentration of solvent in the space down helps too (and limits how much the smell will carry over into the rest of your house).
A heater in the room, a cracked open window, and a fan circulating the air around the smelly vanity — especially the interior of the vanity — is about the best you can do to try to get the smell to go away.
Bill
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The company said it might take as much as 6 months to completely dissipate. Does this sound readonable?
6 months seems like an awfully long time, but I don’t know exactly what solvents were used, and the company is probably being very conservative in their time estimate.
Besides what has already been suggested in this thread, there really isn’t much else you can do. I’d do what has been suggested, then wait at least maybe a few days and see if it seems better to you.
Bill
Thanks very much.
Please see my last message. Do you think it could possibly be the adhesive used to secure sink top to cabinet? That's when i first remember smelling anything chemical.
Thanks
Rubio Monocoat is my favorite finish on the market. It is a zero VOC hardwax oil. It is often mixed with a hardener to reduce cure time from 21 days to 7. The hardener does a very low amount of VOC but you can skip if you want.
It is marketed as a flooring finish, but I use it on absolutely everything I build - doors, cabinets, trim, countertops, staircases, you name it.
It does not form a film like polyeurathane. It is very durable but slightly less so than poly, and when it needs to be refinished it can be spot sanded and reapplied to that one area and it will blend right in. A varnish will look slightly worse every day after it is finished, whereas a hardwax oil can be maintained and will always as good as they day it was finished.
Had rep. from cabinet company visit my home....said she did smell something but did not feel it was coming from the cabinet...she is guessing the adhesive used to adhere sink top to cabinet based on where she could smell it. She actually put her head inside the cabinet to find out where smell was coming from....she noticd near the top close to the site of application. Your thoughts? Cabinet has been up a month.
Thats possible. Do you know what they used for an adhesive? Sometimes epoxy is used, it will smell for a bit and some people are more sensitive to it than others. I suppose it could have been very badly mixed so that it hardens very slowly, but it should still harden due to the way epoxy works (the mix proportions affect hardening time, but it should still fully harden at some point).
You could try getting a small sample of the adhesive and take it outside where you can check if that’s the smell you’re smelling. The same venting advice would still apply to get the smell out, but make sure the cabinet is as open as possible so that the internal area can air out.
Bill
Thanks, Bill. It seems quite dry...i flicked off a piece...no smell, but the smell originally came from just underneath the mount.....would any type of adhesive keeps smelling for that long after application.? What do most plumbers use for such a task? Does it take longer to fully cure in the winter months?Thanks for your advice. I've tried calling the plumber but he hasnt returned my calls.
The plumber just called. He said he used a silicone caulking made by GE with a white cap. It is what he always uses to mount sink to vanity. He didn't elaborate on smells, but said he will stop by. Thanks again, Bill.
Silicone cures by evaporation of the acetone solvent used. It can be pretty smelly, but should eventually dissipate. I would guess a week or so worst case, but it can take longer in confined spaces.
If PVC pipe was used, the solvent used to weld the pipe also smells, but it usually dissipates quickly (maybe a few days).
My guess is you’re one of those people that is more sensitive than most. Keep the vanity open (doors open, drawers out), use a heater IN THE ROOM (not inside the vanity), use a small fan to circulate air through the vanity, and crack a window in the bathroom if you have one (otherwise run the exhaust fan). The smells should go away eventually.
Bill
Your comments are greatly appreciated!