Replies

1. GBA Editor
   Martin Holladay | May 24, 2017 11:48am | #1

   Venkat,
   Trane's refusal to provide meaningful and accessible specifications for this product is reprehensible.

   I have no idea what the output of this unit is at different outdoor temperatures. Trane reps -- if you are reading, tell your employer that this approach is unacceptable.

2. Expert Member
   Dana Dorsett | May 24, 2017 12:13pm | #2

   By all appearances the Trane mini-splits are re-labeled Gree Crown or Crown+ mini splits. Take a close look at the physical details- even an amateur could photoshop the logos from one to the other:

   https://www.trane.com/residential/en/assets/images/products/heating-and-cooling/ductless-systems/mini-split-outdoor-unit/4txk38-lg.png

   http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/de/de0321f7-0136-424c-83a9-6fe0dd424431_1000.jpg

   The HPSF "up to 15" and SEER "up to 38" claims seem highly dubious at best, given that Gree Crown units test around HPSF 10, SEER 30. This may be a soon to be released "NEW & IMPROVED" version, but those are some pretty big efficiency test improvements.

   A couple of Crown submittal sheets, complete with extended temperature capacity charts:

   http://17uo7e27w1attiybs22of10v.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Gree_Crown_Submittal_12KBtuH_230V_020517.pdf

   http://17uo7e27w1attiybs22of10v.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Gree_Crown_Submittal_18KBtuH_230V_020517.pdf

   Also note, Gree's heating capacity charts are "maximum system capacity", not the net heating capacity after factoring in defrost cycles, etc. (Derate those by at least a third.)

3. 
   srivenkat | May 24, 2017 12:25pm | #3

   Thanks Martin and Dana. I am surprised a reputable company like Trane would balk at providing the data that most all others provide and resort to marketing gimmicks. I have asked the Trane contractor that first mentioned about this system to me this morning for the data. He is also going to quote me an RLS3H, which he said would be "more expensive" than the "better performing" Trane.

4. GBA Editor
   Martin Holladay | May 24, 2017 12:35pm | #4

   Venkat,
   To be fair, I didn't mean to imply that Trane would balk at providing the specifications (once you locate someone in the Trane organization who is knowledgeable enough to understand the question). I'm just frustrated that the information isn't accessible. The Trane web page you linked to has two teaser tabs. One teaser tab reads "More details," and the other teaser tab reads "Specs."

   Neither tab provides much information to an interested potential customer.

5. 
   srivenkat | May 24, 2017 12:44pm | #5

   That's true. Sorry for the misread. I will share any data I receive from the contractor. Thanks.

6. Expert Member
   Dana Dorsett | May 24, 2017 01:48pm | #6

   Running a web search looking for submittal sheets on the Trane 4TXK38, That model number also shows up for American Standard branded mini-splits. (The Trane/American Standard model-by-model equivalence goes back a long time, so this is no surprise.) But the avaialble information on the American Standard branded versions are similarly limited. The 3/4 ton 4TXK3809A10NUA allegedly tests at HSPF15/SEER 38, but the others are lower.

   It wouldn't surprise me if the 3/4 ton 4TXK3809A10NUA turned out to be exactly the same unit as the 1-ton 4TXK3812A10NUA except for the control electronics, tested at lower modulation levels, but limiting it's output to less than what the 1-ton puts out:

   https://www.americanstandardair.com/products/heating-and-cooling/ductless/4txk38-outdoor-heat-pump.html#models

   (The "Download the Product Brochure" link goes to a dead-end.)

7. GBA Editor
   Martin Holladay | May 24, 2017 02:24pm | #7

   Dana,
   Thanks for your sleuthing efforts. (I engaged in similar sleuthing, and came up with even less info than you did.)

8. 
   Anon3 | May 24, 2017 06:02pm | #8

   They are all made by Chinese companies (Midea or GREE), there are a couple 40 SEER 9kbtu units coming out 2H this year. Also checkout GREE 2017 catalog, the spec is out already. They probably haven't given the final spec to Trane yet.

   Also http://us.midea.com/us/press-release-new-hvac-ahr-expo What I'm most looking forward to is

   "The SmartDry technology also enables Ultra to detect and control the humidity level of the room from 30 to 90 percent with the MideaAir app."

9. Expert Member
   Dana Dorsett | May 24, 2017 06:12pm | #9

   Anon3 : The Trane/American Standard mini-splits look EXACTLY like a Gree Crown in every external detail, and not much like a Midea. What is it that makes you think they are "most likely" made by Midea?

   Compare the Trane & Gree pictures closely:

   https://www.trane.com/residential/en/assets/images/products/heating-and-cooling/ductless-systems/mini-split-outdoor-unit/4txk38-lg.png

   http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/de/de0321f7-0136-424c-83a9-6fe0dd424431_1000.jpg