‘Til We Meet Again…
To all the earnest participants in this Q&A forum:
My last comment about ADJAC on the “Heat-pump water heater vs. instantaneous water heater” thread was admittedly over the top (as follows):
“Can someone put a leash on ADJAC? He’s single-handedly lowered the level of discourse on this site to the sandbox. He suffers from chronic verbal diarrhea, and – like a rabid – dog should be either muzzled or shot.”
But I suspect that I said what other regulars on this website were thinking. I know I am not alone in concluding that ADJAC has contributed little or nothing substantive or of value in his time on this site, but seems to be constitutionally unable to restrain his (often inarticulate, ungrammatical and incoherent) verbiage which he offers up in large and regular servings.
Martin Holladay called to ask me, very nicely, to “take the high road” in order to break this cycle of offensive repartee. I considered it for a few minutes but, given that I am constitutionally unable to refrain from calling a spade a spade and do not (as the Gospel saying enjoins) “suffer fools gladly”, and that I refuse to trade away directness and honesty for that most useless quality we call “civility”, I will take my leave from this forum.
Those who seek my counsel may do so privately at HouseWright (at) Ponds-Edge (dot) net.
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Replies
No one wants to read personal attacks Robert. I am a great guy and also love all your informative posts and have told you such many times.
We are both builders and should be friends. This is a choice you alone are making.
Come back after a few soaks with a wee sense of humor.
Many will miss you.
Your friend when you are ready, aj.
Two things:
1) Robert, I’m going to appeal to the professor in you. There are so many who come to this site in need of experienced voices. They need voices like yours, those who’ve been beating this green drum for years, who come from a building background, and who have been maintaining a vigil over the industry and its trends. And more importantly, yours is also a voice that SHARES. I’m an architect, a green architect (if there truly is such a thing) and I learned long ago that the second you think you got it all figured out, that’s when someone’s going to hand you a huge piece of humble pie. This is why I love knowing that you’re on here (along with other GBA regulars) and that you’ve got my back if I have a question, or something to research, or an idea to flush out. I urge you to reconsider your decision and remain a part of the learning experience for those who visit this site. I’ll admit that I haven’t agreed with 100% of what you’ve posted, but when I did disagree you made me seriously question it.
2) ADKJAC, Robert’s post is your slice of humble pie. I ask that you willingly toss on a dollup of whipped cream, pour some coffee and decide to enjoy it for desert. I also ask the following. When you post, would you agree to post with your professional name, a comma, and the name of your company? Your words will be linked to you and what you do. I think this will help you lend them the care they need. Look, I’m as irreverent as anyone (have you heard the podcasts?) so I understand your desire to keep things casual, I simply think that if you do the above, and if Robert stays, we’ll be back to our old selves.
ADKJAC UPSTATE NY
I agree with Christopher that it's hard to take anyone seriously who claims to be e builder but doesn't post under their real name and give their company name. Up to a point the sparring is fun but driving Robert off this site does everyone here a dis-service and lowers the quality of the discourse over-all for all.
I have no use for the high road. I'm a pragmatist. Do what it takes to get the best information out there you can. Know when to stand down. Post under your real name. Let us see what kind of buildings you are working on.
I too, would like like to petition Robert to stay. Your contribution to this website is extremely valuable. I have learned much from you, and I appreciate your straightforward and undisguised input.
There are many phony building professionals out there faking this thing we call green building. YOU are NOT one of them.
This industry needs a slap in the face. No, actually a sledge hammer to the collective brow! If it weren't for people like yourself out there to keep people in check, I'm afraid "green building" will never progress.
and to ADKJAC,
I have said this multiple times- stop the nonsensical ramblings. I don't expect your posts to be perfect dissertations-- free of spelling errors, with flawless grammar and punctuation. But PLEASE, finish your thoughts, and use complete sentences. Otherwise, I will have to hire an interpreter to translate your posts.
AND, for hells sake, and if you don't have something interesting to say, don't say it. You don't have to post on every question and blog-- we know you are out there.
Thanks for accurately reporting the gist of my phone call, Robert. I hope you will consider posting here in the future.
To Adkjac and other posters: my message to you is the same as the one I made yesterday to Robert. As one of the forum moderators, I strive to allow robust free speech. But we have a few minimal rules; these include avoidance of profanity and avoidance of personal attacks on other forum participants.
In case there is any uncertainty over what I consider a personal attack -- something to be avoided -- I would include "you idiot" and suggestions that other participants should be shot.
Let's allow our building science arguments to stand on their own merits. Readers should easily be able to sort the wheat from the chaff based on the cogency and consistency of our logic and the sources we cite. There should be no need to paint other participants with epithets.
To Michael: this philosophy of mine -- a hope that we can allow our arguments to stand on their own merits, without tarring those we spar with -- I call "taking the high road." While I don't expect that everyone will share my philosophy, and while I'm happy to have robust debate, I hope that we can keep our discussion civilized.
Thanks to all -- and let the sparring resume.
There's also such a thing as not rising to the bait every time.
Martin
I cringed when I read Robert’s comment that another member “should be shot”, even though I assumed he wasn’t serious, comments like that are uncalled for. I agree the personal attacks should be banned, I didn’t appreciate Robert calling me a “terrorist” simply because I build larger homes. I think GBA needs to welcome all builders regardless of experience, knowledge, and product.
I think there would be a consensus that Robert has a lot of technical knowledge about a variety of Building Science and Green Building topics, especially for his climate. However, he often dispenses that knowledge in a very derogatory manner, interspersing his own political, philosophical, and even religious views into building science. He needs to leave all that superfluous stuff out, most people don’t come here to preached to in such a condescending way.
He really needs to be more like you Martin, someone with a lot of knowledge who simply answers questions and offers advice in a gentlemanly, non-judgmental way. I have my doubts that Robert can do that, but hopefully I’m wrong.
Martin,
Why was the original policy(real names only) changed?
Martin, thanks for spraying some water. Do note that if you look back at any threads this builder does not go off topic till the personal hits start. And as I repeatedly state would love to be best pals with all including all that waste time playing name policeman.
Ie... because I post with one nickname over another one wonders if I am a green builder, not serious enough? ... some can' t follow my scatter brain posts??!? I even have been scolded by the too many dot dot dot police... LOL
Well I am a serious builder. Drive to lake George for your next holiday on our beautiful lake and along with showing you the holes in my wrists we can take a trip to some homes I have designed and lovingly seriously funly built.
Be polight to me first and receive same back. Try it friends (Brett) and you will see it works.
This is a great site. Love and kisses
Aj
John my friend. ??? What do you think this site should do, ask that proof of identity be submitted and then have the site sign our names? Should you be asked to add your middle name and address?
Take me for example. My posts would be the same under any name. And you may still not want me to post. Then what john?
How does anyone know John Brooks is not really Ted Bundy?
IMHO I think we should debate the topic or ignore it or a particular post or poster. If we all follow this one rule of thumb then the site will be flame proof.
Seriously sincerely with more love and kisses
Aj
Adkjac,
GBA strongly recommends that participants post comments using their real names. While we are fully aware of the problem you cite -- the problem of fake identities -- there is, in fact, an easy way to confirm whether regular participants are using their real names. If a builder uses his or her real name, Google will usually supply interested readers with contact information or, in some cases, a Web site.
If you are a real builder, anyone interested in furthering the conversation can send you an e-mail or pick up the phone to contact you -- as long as you are using your real name.
If an imposter adopted John Brooks’ name and posted slanders, it wouldn't take long for someone to figure out that the imposter wasn't the real John Brooks.
Transparency works.
My email is now posted right with every post. Let's see all the rest do so that worry about such.
Martin, when this site requires verified names, I will comply.
If the complainers here do not follow suit and post their email address, then I will take mine back down.
By the way.... there have been many tussels here that did not involve me. How about this last one between Kurt and....
At no time did gba ask Kurt for full disclosure.
Like I said. Focus on the post. Not the poster, or the style of the post or other inane issues.
I, like many people who post here have no problem sharing my email address
housedesign(at)verizon(dot)net
I enjoy discussing construction and design with my peers.... publicly and privately
Martin's Email address is no secret
Joe Lstiburek's email is no secret
Anyone who posts here has likely published his/her email address anyway
the GoogleSearch and the search function here at GBA will often include the email address of the poster
Why be afraid to share your name and email address with Peers?
I would prefer not to publish my social security number or the name of my first pet ;--)
I think Robert knows that he crossed the line
I think that many of us are not-so-polite with our peers
Some more than others
I apologize for not always being polite
The Internet AND this site is friggin great
Let's play Nice
http://www.cbc.ca/q/blog/2010/07/06/should-anonymous-commenting-on-news-sites-be-allowed/
interesting discussion yesterday-
I have a learned a lot from all of you-some more than others- thanks
All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sand pile at school.
These are the things I learned:
Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.
Take a nap every afternoon.
When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.
Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.
Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.
And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.
Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.
Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world it would be if we all - the whole world - had cookies and milk at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.
And it is still true, no matter how old you are, when you go out in the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.
[Source: "ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN" by Robert Fulghum. See his web site at http://www.robertfulghum.com/ ]
Amen Danny
ADJAC, Telling us your e-mail address tells us nothing more than telling us your "name". However, this is "questions and answers", not "who's who". If you help me with a question or problem I don't care what you call yourself. If you are consistently not worth reading I'll pass you by when I see your name. Easy enough. By the way, I grew up in C'rinth.
Robert (If you are still reading), I will withhold my personal assessment of you and ask you to reconsider. Your posts are a significant net positive. Each perspective is unique and I think yours is additive. The amount of time you spend on this site answering questions is impressive and should be appreciated.
Martin, Maybe you could reiterate what the GBA policies are. In the end if a poster is doing more harm than good can you, will you, just cut them off somehow?
Kurt,
GBA has the ability to ban people from the site, although my own inclination is to use the power very sparingly.
As far as I know, we have not yet banned anyone for any reason other than spamming -- that is, attempting to post ads for products or other Web sites.