Soffit for recessed kitchen light; task lights, foot candles, light design
Essential question: how do I build a decent looking soffit to house a LED recessed lights to avoid holes in the envelope?
Back story:
I’m trying to improve the lighting in the kitchen of my 1915 1600 sqft Bungalow Zone 5. I’ve read Martin’s articles on lighting and ‘ban the can.’ I’ve also seen the tides shift a bit in the Q&A section with more people switching to “air tight” gasketed LED lighting pseudo can lights. I bought some wafer style LED lights to use in the kitchen but did some more research on light design and came across Doug Walter’s article.
Essentially he discusses ways to improve task lighting specifically through testing foot candles and using a combination of specific recessed lights and under cabinet lighting. His recommendations are 150FC for task lighting (I believe code is 50FC). This is challenging to obtain without recessed lights (pendants etc do not provide enough light) as you can see from his article. I’ve reached out to him and he reports the wafer style lights do not produce enough FC for task lighting but reported that his client used a new style of LED down light which worked for task lighting.
So, do I place these smaller mini downlights in ceiling which are air tight, IC, or try to build decent looking soffits to reduce holes in the envelope. I can’t find any examples of soffits with LED recessed lights. Unfortunately, most of my kitchen is below the knee wall attic. Current FC is measured at only 8. Photos attached of proposed light, picture from his article and my kitchen.
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Building a soffit just to maintain the air seal seems like a lot of work, although it is doable, I'd use steel studs and just hang it below the existing ceiling. I think your best bet is to install air-tight junction boxes and use box mounted fixtures.
Thanks DC, agreed I’m asking for more work. I was sort of hoping someone would say just put them in normally (while following all the basic principles discussed commonly on this forum). Not sure what you mean by steel studs hanging down. The box you’re speaking of is putting the light I have pictured below in The ceiling with a fabricated poly iso- box around it?
"If I were to do a soffit, I'd use steel studs" is what I meant.
First you need a bit of ambient lighting in the place. This can be done by dropping the crown molding above your cabinets and installing lights above them. One caution is that this tends to show any imperfection in your ceiling, but they do a great job of adding diffuse light.
Next for task lighting, you need some pendants above your island. Lot of pendants don't put out enough output, so you need either multiple units (make sure they have shades so you don't get glare in your eyes when you work/sit). I didn't want multiple fixtures at home and couldn't find one with enough output, so I made my own out of a 1'x4' LED panel light.
Since you already have the track, the simplest for the other side is to installer a longer track. These give you the most flexibiliy without extra holes in your ceiling. Go with ones that take GU10 bulbs as you can get bulbs with narrow beam angle.
Also get some linear bar under counter lights. These put out way more light than the pucks you have there now.
Last resort is pot lights, the slim LED ones do seal much better. They have a pretty wide cone though. They are used in kitchen lighting around me universally, not a fan of them as most people go overboard, but they do put out a fair bit of light.
If you do go with these, make sure to get ones that dim to warm. When you are not working, you want much lower light levels and most standard LED lights dim to a green tinge on low. No the most flattering light for you or your guests.
Akos, thanks for replying. Agreed that I need some more ambient lighting. These are old cabinets that have been retrofitted with the crown molding. It is completely open on the top part and we use a bit of that for storage so I would like to not take a crown molding off. If I could find an example A pre-fabricated crown with LED lighting that I could easily put up I would be willing to do that.
I’m definitely considering pendants. There is no island but a countertop a fabricated with a butcher block. Please see attached picture. My plan is to eventually remove all radiators and I put the range with a range hood where the radiator is with countertop on each side. I want to be careful not to block the window with pendant lights. Pendant lights would help with ambient lighting’s especially on a dimmer switch though.
Agreed with getting rid of the puck lights. Plan per Walter article is to use LED tape Lights with diffuser blends. Lights he recommended is task lighting SG9. Wheel plate to see is right at the lip of the cabinet as the picture shows attached above.
My plan for the LED lights was 3000 Kelvin.
Not a big fan of LED tape for undercounter lights. The adhesive doesn't always hold up well to cooking and it tends to fall off from the surface. I would stick to off the shelf bar lights. You can get them either plug in or hard wire and most come in linkable segments. Bit more money up front but much less work to install and never have to fuss with it later.
You can have a pendant just above the window as long as the bulb is recessed enough in the shade to keep it out of your eyes. Look for narrow cone shaped shade or go with PAR20 bulbs.
I helped my in-laws with the lighting in their kitchen. Their cabinets didn't go up to the ceiling so lighting there was an easy add. Also installed pot lights above the counters.
They rarely if ever use the pot lights. Almost always use the undercounter+overcabinet lights. The diffuse light from the ones above the cabinet do such a great job of lighting the place that there is no need for the extra light from the pot lights.
Also forgot to mention that the track lighting I have Is quite ugly and would like to remove it. Even if I expanded the track lighting it doesn’t make a great task lights because it creates a shadow due to the angle of the light on the counter in workspace per Walter article.
Hard to love track lights but they do offer a lot of options.
You can get flexible track light with the device box on one end which would let you get the lights above your work surface. Not ideal look but practical.
You can also look at linear pendants that can be offset from the base. This way you can move the light bar above your work surface. Something along these lines:
https://professional.scp.co.uk/products/pipeline-linear-pendant-light
Akos, I really like those linear pendants!
Under cabinet lighting will actually be strip LED with cover.
“The SG9 LED Strip Light, with higher light output, radiates bright, seamless illumination while the "No Dot" lens eliminates individual LED diode reflections on countertops and other surfaces”
If you want to put in some indirect lighting such as Akos suggests, you can get crown moldings specifically made to house LED tape lights for this purpose. You will see any issues with the finishing of your ceiling drywall though. I have this problem in my sunroom where I thought I’d done a pretty good job of mudding the drywall, but the indirect lighting (which is bright enough to be the only lighting) really shows every little spot that could have used some more sanding. Indirect lighting is very nice and even in the open spaces though, and it has the advantage of never blinding you no matter what angle you’re looking.
I’d put in more intense LED undercounter lighting. If you leave a little lip on the face of the cabinet that hangs a bit below the bottom of the cabinet, you can conceal these LED strip lights so that you end up with bright counters but no glare from the lights themselves. This is like an indoor version of the dark sky approved outdoor lights, and it’s especially helpful in a kitchen where the edge of the lights may be near eye level. You don’t want direct light from another source to blast you in the eyes while you’re working.
I’d try hiding lights using one or both of these methods before I’d build a soffit. If I did build a soffit, I’d just hang it under the original ceiling. This way the original ceiling drywall remains the air barrier and the soffit only needs to house the lights with no concern for air sealing.
Bill
Thanks for your reply Bill, but my main concern right now is task lighting which I agree if I improve the undercabinet lighting as above, my foot candles would increase however I don’t think I should be enough. I agree that I need more ambient light as I answered above. Would be nice to find that pre-fabricated crown molding that I could just put up with LEDs in it.
When you double the distance between a light source and the countertop surface the amount of light striking that surface decreases by a factor of four. Therefore, put under cabinet lights along the front edge of the overhead cabinets and use T-5 bulbs . They provide much more light.
For general room lighting the best fixture is a surface mounted one that casts light down and to the sides as well as up towards the ceiling surface. Can lights tend to leave the ceiling surface too dark. Don't forget to install a light over the sink.
Thanks Scott, I’m assuming you mean some down lighting over the sink, not under cabinet lighting