Shortchanged on spray foam
RetroFitNightmare
| Posted in Green Products and Materials on
OK – So I began to rip down some of the smelly open cell foam and realized that the foam guy
completely ripped me off with the closed cell that was supposed to be under the open cell. There was supposed to be 2″ of closed cell….I’m lucky if there is 3/4.
My question is do I leave the envelope alone and just live with it or do I have someone come in and rip it all out and seek legal action for the removal and for the shortchanging on the closed cell?
I’m supposed to have R-38 in the roof decking. I’m lucky if I have R-24 or R-30 in some areas.
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Replies
Joe,
Welcome to GBA. We will do our best to answer your questions.
You started a thread about your spray foam problems two days ago (6/17). I answered your first question soon after your posted it. If you have lost track of your thread, here it is:
https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/general-questions/27743/spray-foam-odor-help
Since that first thread, you have posted 6 more new threads, all posing similar questions about your problematic installation of spray foam. Here's how it works on the GBA site: if you have follow-up questions related to your first post -- in your case, any further questions about your spray foam -- you post them on the original page. You don't start a new thread, and you don't post multiple versions of the same question.
I have deleted 5 of your 6 follow-up threads. Please post any follow-up questions on the original page you started. Again, here is the link:
https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/general-questions/27743/spray-foam-odor-help
geez ...
Hi Joe,
do you ever watch Seinfeld?
"The guy who runs the place is a little temperamental, especially about the ordering procedure..."
"No Soup for You!"
C'mon, John -- I serve soup to all comers, and I almost never complain about the format of the questions posted here. (And remember -- the soup at GBA is free.)
But seven separate threads asking the same two questions? That's not considerate, and it's unfair to our readers -- in my humble opinion.
John,
Soup Nazi?
Martin,
I didn't see all of Joe's posts.
I did see a couple that looked like the kind generated by the "GBA glitch".
I see double and even triple posts often....
I don't think it's the user's fault.
It happened again to me just a few days ago.
John,
I deleted them before they were up for long. At least four threads had different wording, so they weren't examples of double-clicking.
Martin,
I apologize
You do offer the best advice on the Internet.
....and we all get a little grumpy sometimes....
John,
Apology accepted!
Wow....7 responses and none of them had to do with the question. You guys must really have time on your hands to respond 7 times and not one to give advise or guidance.
I simply asked my question under (what I thought were) different forums so that it didnt get overlooked or dismissed for being listed under the wrong topic. It was a simple mistake and an attempt to be sure I was in the proper forum....so yes the soup nazi reference is very applicable here.
I think I will just go to my regular site and ask this question there, apparently there are actual contractors and installers there willing to give guidance and constructive advice rather than sarcastic remarks.
Enjoy the rest of your day while sitting at home foaming at the mouth waiting for the next victim to make a mistake and be pounced on like a wounded deer in a jungle of wanna be tigers!
On the internet no one knows you're a dog.
Joe, sorry you didn't get any on-topic responses... so far... but you're still in the right place. There are several previous threads on spray-foam failures and problems of various sorts, so it's worth looking at what has already been discussed. Aside from that, the banter between John and Martin is not at your expense. Martin does run a tight ship here, but he also dispenses the best free advice on the web.
I wouldn't remove any spray foam yourself. Call the contractor and let him have a chance to make it right. If that doesn't work, call the manufacturer. If you start taking it out yourself, you reduce the chances that they will cooperate. Don't spoil the crime scene.
I'd say the answer is obviously the same whether we are talking spray foam or M&M's: address your issue with the contractor. If your issue is not addressed to your satisfaction, seek other remedies to meet your cost - performance - satisfaction preferences.
This site is more about sharing factual information on green build techniques and products, not so much chatting about contractor performance, offering legal advice, critiquing individual installations based on limited information and no real world inspection, etc..... Along with appreciating any help one can get from those offering their time and experience freely and understanding that such a model often doesn't provide specific insight to one job nor immediate feedback, albeit except for those who do thorough writes ups for blog discussions often with third party expert consultation.
OK here's a story from someone who's been there and I hope it helps. The keywords are lies, denial, legal action.
First, it appears the smell is likely going to stay forever. They will give you a lot of crap, denial etc. that's hot their industry works by blaming the customer, his house, etc. Spray foam is huge profit right now, they will lie as much as they can.
I collected lots of evidence and approached the installer with it. They are the largest installer around here to my knowledge, they should have never screwed up I thought. When I visited their own office building, guess what. Smelly foam, the same smell as in my house. From that I conclude, it's a smelly material which can't be applied 100% accurately. The chemical reactions are likely to continue for a long time, and it's likely due to the components not being perfectly installed. it's utopian to believe the installer can mix dangerous chemicals in front of your house in a truck and apply it properly using a mechanic nozzle. Just because some people can't smell it, it doesn't mean there is no smell or it isn't harmful. Factory made foam is a totally different story.
To help you identify the 'smell': it's either a sweet smell or a rotten fish smell. The internet is full of homeowner stories describing them.
The 'threat' I made was simple. Refund and remove or pay me to remove it myself. They chose to pay me for removal on top the refund and I went back to work.
However, 5% of the smell will likely remain unless you remove all lumber from roof (search in youtube for a video). The wood obviously absorbed the foam's chemicals.
I tried using a zero voc primer over rafters after scraping everything out, that helped a lot but a tiny amount remains and is noticeable during hot weather.
My advice, use the legal threat and be persistent. The stuff is dangerous to your family's health, it's proven fact. It was the dumbest mistake I ever did in my house.... You need to remove it.
Good luck!
Thank you for letting me vent, I spend an entire year cleaning out spray foam but I am happy to have resolved the issue at last
So is there any way to have an air quality test done to see if the smell is toxic? Others come into the house and say the smell isn't bad! I say the fact that there is a smell at all bothers me.
I have the same problems. My bedroom is adjusted to a part of attic which I used as a storage and closet. My house built in 1950 but in great shape. My bedroom built as a dorm between two attics..I have a doors on both part of attic and it is very functional. Actually I used only one part of attic adjusted to my wall where I have my bed. My grandaughter always likes to play there. Everything was fine until old fiberglass insulation started falling down. I decided to put new insulation. I read a lot of articles about closed cell foam and only good reviews. I found company through Angie's list who had good reviews /ARCO/ Recently foam was instoled.. They said that in 2 days smell will go away. I have huge fan in this attic which works constantly during the days. I live in north suburbs of Chicago. We had great weather but for a few days temperature dropped and we have constant rain. I even turned on heat. Smell did not went away even became worse. Company contacted me on next day and requested money. I said that I will pay after I don't have smell. I am very sensitive to any smells and have allergy and asthma. I went to sleep in my friends house for a few days. So I think now what I have to do? I am more inclined to remove foam. I am so glad that I did not pay them! I want to contact Angie's list and discuss with them options I have. In mean time I am looking for company which can remove foam. After reading your forum I opened my eyes and seriously look in my problem. I cant live like this. When door in attic closed I still feel smell coming from attic wall. I will appreciate any advise. Thank you very much.
Elvina,
If you haven't read it yet, I suggest that you read the following article: Spray Foam Jobs With Lingering Odor Problems.
Your first order of business is to work with the contractor who installed the spray foam. In some cases like yours, the contractor has agreed to remove the foam at the contractor's expense.
If those negotiations are not successful, you should contact the manufacturer of the spray foam. If you still come up against a brick wall, it may be time to contact a lawyer.
In the meantime, document all of your actions. Letters are better than phone calls. Date your letters and keep copies of all letters that you send. Good luck.