Thoughts on Investing in a Pneumatic Nail Gun
Hi,
I know this isn’t really green building related but after doing some research online, I am move unsure which direction to go.
I am slowing gather some of the tools I will need to build my detached garage this year and the house next year. Initially I was thinking about getting a battery powered framing nail gun (Dewalt) until I realised they cost around $600 CAD and only comes with one battery which is not useful when I don’t have power at the property to recharge it.
Now I am looking at a pneumatic nail gun for framing, sheathing and siding (engineer wood). I know ideally you would take more than one tool but since I will not being doing this for a living , I think I can get away with just one tool. Let me know if I am wrong on that front.
Also what are most people using for a framing gun, 21 degrees or the 30 degrees? I like the idea of a 21 degrees because of the full nail head but dislike the plastic piece I will find around the jobsite. Also my locate big box store seem to mostly carry 30 degrees.
I already have a large generator, hardwood floor nailer and will be buying the either the Porter-Cable or BOSTITCH compressor combo kit for interior finish and hardwood flooring.
Thank you,
Arnold
GBA Detail Library
A collection of one thousand construction details organized by climate and house part
Replies
> Also what are most people using for a framing gun, 21 degrees or the 30 degrees?
In New Jersey, neither. :-) Here, Hitachi coil nailers seem to be the most prevalent for production framing. But not everyone is a production framer, so you are right to consider options.
One interesting option, though I haven't used it, is the Bostich F33PT. It's a 30/33 degree paper tape stick nailer that also can be used as a positive placement nailer (what you use if you don't want to hand nail joist hangers and other connectors). If it works well, it might be a good general purpose gun.
Arnold,
Among the big names there isn't much to separate them. A lot comes down to preference and what you become used to.
Over the years I've used guns made by Senco, Bostich and Milwuakee. The one I still use most days is a 25 year old Paslode. Last week I dropped it from a roof onto the slab below. It chipped the slab, but otherwise was fine. The nails are 30 degrees, but are full head, held together with a paper collating strip, and unlike some other nailers you can use generic brands. The only maintenance I've had done was the seal on the trigger a decade ago.
I framed with a newer model last year and found it great. Still easy to clear jams, but much better depth adjustment, and they now have a hanger. I don't think you could go wrong buying one.
I don't do enough framing anymore to justify buying a positive placement gun. Instead I use a Rigid palm-nailer, which is also useful for tight spaces.
Paslode makes a "compact" framing nailer which I like to use. It doesn't hold as many nails as the full size version, but it's a lot easier to fit into tight spaces so it's great for remodel work. It is just as powerful as the full size version, but since it doesn't weigh as much, you sometimes have to push it down harder to make sure the nail drives in properly.
BTW, use urethane air hoses. I like Flexeel from Coilhose. These are lightweight and make the tool easy to work with. I use 1/4" hose and it works fine. A swivel fitting on the nail gun will help keep any air hose from fighting you as you maneuver into position too.
Bill
I ended up going with a Paslode 350 model, for similar reasons as above...Full head nails, great functionality. Been happy so far with some garage wall rebuilding and a 20x30 cabin framing project.
Hi,
Thanks for all of the response. I used a Paslode occasionally when I was in electrical 18 years ago but not enough to get a real fit for it.
From your experience, do you go through a lot of gas cartridge and does it become expensive for a DIY/owner build?
Thank you,
Arnold
Arnold,
I think posters are talking about Paslode air-nailers, not the gas powered Impulse. If you want to go airless I'd go battery not gas.
That makes sense.
Is it worth the investment going with battery powered nailer or go with the air nailer?
Thanks,
Arnold
Air nailers are cheaper, and seem to be more durable. Air nailers are also usually quite a bit lighter weight, and also smaller. I'd go with air myself. Use one of the Flexeel 1/4" air hoses and you have very little weight tugging at the gun, and no issues with draining a battery either.
A lot of people don't like the smell of the exhaust from the gas fired cordless nailers. I've heard stories of people getting stinked-out of enclosed areas because of the gas. There are also issues with keeping the battery charged since the gas-fired nailers use a battery to ignite the gas charge.
Bill
Recently went to a Hitachi cordless framing nailer. I have not pulled out my compressor or pneumatic nailer at all since then.
Make sure to go with one of the air sprung units (not flywheel). They work as well as a standard nailer. About the only issue with it is they are heavy, you'll feel it when working overhead. You do need at least two batteries, never found that I need more than that.
I went for 20 deg plastic strip to be able to use scrails. These are great for anything that needs to be take apart later or for any decking or fencing. WAY faster than driving in screws with an autofeed.
I generally find that with the newest generation of cordless tools, you do pay extra but they work as well as corded are just way more convenient. I haven't used a corded miter saw, circular saw, angle grinder or rotary hammer drill since going battery powered.
Thanks Akos. You've made my decision more difficult by double guessing my initial choice of going with an air nailer.
Arnold
The thing that finally pushed me try the cordless one (besides the fact that they now work) is that it came with a lifetime warranty, from what I gather that also includes the battery. Unlike the pneumatic ones, there is also no service intervals or any maintaince.
My only complaint about this one is that I had to modify the magazine a bit to feed scrails smoothly, but I think that is more of an issue with the collation of the scrails.
I use it as a generic grab it for anything gun, the lack of hose or having to lug the compressor up a couple of stories means that I use it even for smaller jobs that would have been done with a cordless impact. Way faster than a cordless impact for any job.
Akos,
How is it for repetitive tasks like nailing off roof sheathing? Could two batteries keep up?
No issues at all. Put it in bump fire and feed it nail strips.
The batteries seem to run surprisingly long on these, I've never counted the number of strips or time but definitely long enough that the one on the base is fully charged.
Akos,
I'm really close to going airless. They are certainly the future. I doubt we will see air-tools being used anywhere but in shops soon. That said, I'm glad I didn't buy the first generation of cordless nailers.
TOOL FIGHT! GO!
But seriously though...Pneumatics are still most common on job sites. The battery framing nailers that came out over the past couple years are finally able to sink nails almost as well as a pneumatic and are much more convenient than compressor and hose for quick tasks, but I wouldn't want to carry that much extra weight all day framing a house. The nail guns are the last tool that I still prefer plugged in over cordless.
As far as 21 or 30 degree, it all depends on where you build. If it's seismic it's 21 full head. If it's wet, plastic. Usually it's best to go with whatever is sold locally.
As far as brand, there's a lot of personal preference of course, but the Hitachi's seem to get the most consistently good reviews.
A couple years ago I bought a pair of the Bostitch framing guns that could switch to positive placement for hangars. Both of those guns have been thrown in the dumpster after multiple rebuilds and trips to the repair shop. Warranty didn't even cover them in the first year as it was considered "wear". Yeah. Thanks Bostitch. They wore out before even finishing a single house. Somehow my Senco I bought used (and abused) almost 20 years ago has kept plugging along with no complaints.
Andy,
Maybe a thread on which nailers to avoid would be more useful. I'm with you on the Bostitch. Nothing but trouble.
Funny. I have three Bostitch nailers -- not framing but roofing and siding. Never any problems. I got them after seeing what the roofers in my area used.
I have a Bostitch roofer too and it's been fine. I'm not a roofer so it winds up only doing one or two smaller roofs a year and all of those have been in good mid summer weather. The Bostitch framers turned to boat anchors once the weather got the slightest bit wet or cold. Fair weather tools?
I had good luck with the Bostitch roofing gun too. It's the framers that caused problems.
Good to know to stay away from Bostitch.
Arnold
Palm nailers are the bees knees for joist hangers and really tight spots. They also have a ton of power for laminating headers made of engineered wood.
My current framers are Paslode paper collated. I have the compact model, which works great, but has an annoyingly small capacity. Prior to that I had a Bostitch wire weld nailer. Never had an issue with it until it took a fall off a 16 foot ladder and the nose assembly broke. The replacement part and repair labor was more than what the nailer was worth, so I switched to Passlode.
> A couple years ago I bought a pair of the Bostitch framing guns that could switch to positive placement for hangars.
Hah. That sounds like the one I posted about above thinking it's interesting. Glad to know it's trouble!
Over the life of the gun you will spend more on nails than on the gun. If you're getting inspected check with your inspector about what they allow. A few years ago the local officials cracked down on clip-head nails. The local Habitat ReStore had cases of nails that no one could use anymore. Some sticker nailers didn't shoot full head nails so well. If you have to use full head nails coil nails might be a better choice.
All other things equal, get a gun that uses nails you can buy at a box store. You never know when you'll run out of nails on a weekend or evening.
I don't do a lot of framing, but my framing nailer is a 3-in-1 I bought at Harbor Freight almost 15 years ago. Its name comes from the fact that it's adjustable for the angle of the nails. I've shot tens of thousands of nails with it and can't recall it ever jamming. It's not fussy about nails either, it seems to shoot whatever I happen to have. It is heavy, and the weight becomes a hassle after a while. I also use it for exterior trim, I get the smallest nails and crank up the air pressure so it countersinks them. Then caulk and paint.
One thing that the newer guns have is depth adjustment that works. The older guns just instructed you to adjust the air pressure and that never worked well.
"The older guns just instructed you to adjust the air pressure and that never worked well."
Which was a huge problem with framers who used small compressors with wildly variable pressure. Half the sheathing nails were either under of over-sunk.
I went through this decision a few years back. I’m not a builder and it was for diy jobs that I needed a framing nailer. I was going to get air and then get all air tools to go with compressor. After thinking about it I ended up with the paslode gas powered. I didn’t want to lug around a compressor every time I had to do a job and I didn’t want to store yet another tool. I almost bought the battery powered bositech but at the time paslode was cheaper. I also don’t know if this is still the case but it was debatable if battery powered alone could ever match a gas powered one with power. Also note you could probably buy your tools used if you are using it on one build and that is it. Going back I probably could have saved the money and just used structural star drive screws for framing small jobs.
Not a professional framer, but can offer some insight. I’ve owned Botha Bostitch 28 degree wire weld nailer and a Paslode compact framing gun nailer which shoots 30 deg paper collated.
Pros of the Bostitch—Shoots 3.5” nails which can be important, 100 nail capacity, light weight for its size, wire weld nails won’t get soggy when wet, wire weld nails are cheap.
Cons—Must wear very good eye protection as little bits of the wire can fly at you.
Pros of the Paslode—commonly used professional brand with lots of nail options, very well constructed, compact size makes it easy to fit between studs for toe nailing blocking.
Cons of the Paslode—small nail capacity is a huge pain for actual framing use, nail size maxes out at 3.25”, nails are more expensive.
If I had to do it again, I would buy a full size Paslode nail gun that uses paper collated nails.
I use the Milwaukee M18 tool system for everything else, Including a 15 gauge finish nailer. I think the extra weight of a battery framer would be prohibitive.
The compact Paslode framer uses the same paper collated nail strips the full size nail gun uses. You aren't locked into Paslode nails, either, although I use them because they're good quality. You just need nails with the same angle and a head style that will work in the gun and you're good to go. I've used some other brands of nails in my Paslode nail gun and haven't had any problems, but I'm careful to make sure the off brand nails are similar in design to the Paslode nails.
A big downside to the Paslode nails for DIY applications is that they only sell them two ways: big boxes of either 2,500 or 5,000 nails (I forget which it is), or the smaller packs of around 700-1,000 nails that include a gas cartridge for their gas fired cordless nailers. If you only need a few nails, the combo pack is still cheaper, and you might be able to give away the gas cartridge to someone who has one of the guns that uses it.
I don't like wire collated nails because of the flying metal bits. I use primarily paper collated nails, or the plastic collated nails with only a little plastic. These kinds are safer. I've found the Paslode brand nail strips to hold up pretty well to normal abuse (carry a few in a tool bag, handle them in the sun with sweaty hands, etc.), but I've never left any out in the rain or anything severe like that.
Bill
Just some relative weights of the different options for perspective:
- The Hitachi air-nailer is 3.99 kgs (8.8 lbs)
- The Hitachi battery nailer is 4.49 kgs (9.83 lbs)
- the Milwaukee fuel cell framer is 5.26 kgs (12.16 lbs)
I've decided to go with a pneumatic setup since I will need to run the generator anyways for the saws and the all important radio. I ordered the Porter-Cable 3 nailer combo but still looking or a framing gun at a reasonable price.
I will go with the 30/34 degree framing nailer since those are the type of nail strip that is most commonly sold in the store in Ottawa. My only concern is if a 30/34 degree nailer will cause an issue for someone who is lefthanded. That seems to only be a concern for the DYI grade nailer:
- NuMax Pneumatic Strip 34-Degree Clipped Head Framing Nailer
- Freeman Pneumatic 34-Degree Clipped Head Framing Nailer
- Crisp-Air Framing Nailer
In my area, certain tools seem to be in short supply, at least the DYI grade type tools.
Thanks,
Arnold
Make absolutely sure your local authorities will accept clip head nails, many won't. The 21 degree format was developed to allow more space between nails for full heads.
DC,
My 30 degree Paslode framer takes full head nails.
Two of the three models he mentioned are clip-head.
Hi DCContrarian,
The Porter-Cable FC350B shoots both clipped-head and full-head paper-tape collated nail.
Arnold
I'm not sure why the angle of the nail strips would make a difference in terms of handidness. The big advantage to the angled nail strips is that you can get into tighter spaces to nail stuff. On my Pasload nailer, you could grab it from either side to nail stuff, it's just a handle with a trigger. Reloading left handed you'd have to flip it over though, since you have to lay it on the right to open the magazine, but I think they're all like that.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Here is an example of a DIY grade framing nailer where a lefthanded may have a harder time grabbing the nailer because of how the clip is connected to the rest of the nailer.
Arnold
Now I see what you mean. The nailers I've used have always had the handle basically tie into the center of the magazine as far as I know (I never paid a lot of attention to that), which would make the ambidextrous, except for any potential adjustment control issues.
My original thinking was that the adjustments shouldn't matter much because you usually set them and leave them alone, so it's not a constant issue with every shot.
Bill
All stick nailers are built the same way. The 20deg ones have a bit more space there but the magazine is still screwed to the handle on the left side. I've used these with both hands never really noticed the magazine in the way.
Coil nailers have the magazine bellow the handle but they tend to be bulkier. They do hold a lot of nails though.
Apologies for reviving this old thread, but I just want to give my two cents. Investing in a pneumatic nail gun sounds like a good decision for your detached garage and future house project. A pneumatic nail gun should work well for your needs, and it's great that you're considering a versatile option that can be used for framing, sheathing, and siding. But I’d like to note that when it comes to investing, it's always a good idea to consult with a qualified financial planner https://www.humaninvesting.com/financial-planning to help you make an informed decision that aligns with your financial goals. They can help you make a plan that fits your specific needs and goals, and provide guidance on how to best allocate your funds for your upcoming projects.
The critical spec to consider is 3.5" x .165 nails are 16d nails. If you have engineered walls and they call for 16d nails, you need to make sure your gun can shoot that size nail. This radically limits your gun choices.
Deleted
By radically you mean close to zero choices.
All of the normal guns shoot maximum .131 nails.
I know Max USA and Bostich Industrial sell a gun that shoots .165 nails - they are 5 1/8 inch long!
The only time I have seen 16d nails specified is for filler blocks for connecting two TJI's.
That's when you grab your hammer!
That's when I grab my palm nailer!
You can usually have any design done for “gun nails”, which might mean an extra nail or two for a connection compared to using old-school sinkers. Engineers all know framers try to use nail guns these days, that’s been the case for decades, and many/most designs already allow for that. If a design specifically calls out a particular nail, you can always ask the engineer to modify things. I think paslode even has an equivalence table for their gun nails compared to old-school nails.
Bill