Help Identifying This Framing Method
Hello GBA Community,
Long time reader, first time poster. I’m in the process of planning a full envelope over hall of my house. (Built 1949, NJ right outside of NYC, Zone 4a, Two Story w/ basement under 50% and two crawl spaces under the rest, essentially no upgrades to control layers since 1949, except for a small addition in the back.) We have owned the house for about 1.5 years now, however it was owned by my partner’s family prior to us purchasing it, so through her I know the general history of the house since her grandfather bought it in the mid 1960s. I will eventually follow up with more comprehensive ideas/questions regarding my full plan but I wanted to start with a question regarding the framing style of the house, as I have never seen this specific detail and cant seem to place it in online resources either.
While renovating the 2nd fl bathroom and 2nd fl primary bedroom last year I noticed that the 2nd fl studs ran past the floor joists. I originally thought it was possibly balloon framed, however there is a double top plate below the floorline that the joists and studs all land on. Where the joists terminate there is no rim joist…In fact most of the bays don’t have blocking/crossbracing in them , and run clear through from front to back of the house, as well as side to side over the attached garage. They aren’t even nailed to the studs that they are butted up next to… This has really thrown me for a loop, especially since the house is sheathed with non-structural gypsum sheathing, and does not have structural corners, nor let-in cross bracing. I’m assuming that a combination of the plaster walls, and the wood lap siding was considered enough back then for lateral bracing? Am I living in a stack of playing cards?
All of this has led me down the path of wanting to completely re-sheath the house when the time comes (soon) to replace the 60+ year old faded aluminum siding that is over the original wood lap siding. Adding all of the necessary control layers and ventilated rainscreen at that time. I’m wondering if anyone can ID this framing style, or has seen any details about fire blocking/air sealing/insulating a floorline like this? I’ve attached a drawing below illustrating a peeled away section of the exterior wall.
Thanks
Aaron
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Replies
Sure looks like balloon fraing to me.
Before you remove the aluminum siding consider repainting it with the proper prep.
Walta
Thats what I thought as well, however all of the walls have a double top plat at the floor line that the joists rest on. I was under the impression that balloon framing was no top plate with continuous stud bays all of the way up like in the diagram you shared.
I'm wondering what your reasoning for keeping the aluminum siding would be? I've thought about the positives of keeping it. But since there is no air barrier, wrb, rainscreen, int/ext insulation, pest screening (there are a lot lot lot of snakes that crawl straight up from the ground into the corner channel of the aluminum siding and then make their way through the siding and pop out at various places on the exterior), no flashing at the windows and doors, rooflines...I decided it would be better to take it off and recycle it. Then I can get into the mental debate of if I should remove the original wood lap and try to reuse that over new sheathing. Or if I just sheath right over the original wood lap.
There were a few variations on balloon framing back in the day, so that might be what you're seeing here, or possibly some sort of renovation or addition done in the distant past?
Consider adding some fire blocking in those walls while they're open. One of the big problems with balloon framing is that all those open studbays are like chimneys that draw fire from the lower levels to the upper levels, pretty much guaranteeing that the entire house will go up in a blaze pretty quickly. Fireblocking helps with this, as does stuffing the cavities with mineral wool or even fiberglass batts.
Bill
This is just a transition phase between balloon and platform. It's so typical of stubborn carpenters to incorporate new things relatively slowly, so with all the changes to homebuilding in the modern era, you'll be hard pressed to find a pure example of anything. Also typical of carpenters to not incorporate what to us are no-brainer structural elements. Lots to say about this, it's more common than corn here in the midwest.
If it were me, I'd go with the total peel. Do one wall at a time and strip the exterior. This presents the opportunity to establish A) new wiring where needed; B) stud bay fluffy insulation; C) a structural sheathing layer (taped OSB for airtightness); D) exterior continuous insulation (optional); E) a vented rainscreen; and F) new siding. A lot of work, but if it's your personal house it's a heck of an upgrade.
Thanks OhioAndy, that makes sense about the transition phase. I appreciate your input on what you would do regarding the total peel. It's in-line with how I feel as well. Trying to give this structure a chance at a second 75 year life.
Aaron,
It's yet another nail in the coffin of the notion that old houses were built better - which is mainly based on our experience that their trim work was usually much nicer.
I would block between the studs on top of the floor joists. This will provide a fire-stop between the floor and wall assemblies, stiffen up the joists against rotation, and give you backing for baseboard trim. New sheathing, even if just strips spanning the (absent) rim- joists will do a lot to strengthen the structure.
Before you spend any money on this building write down your end point goal. If the end goal is to end up with a tight, well insulated home with modern windows, modern plumbing, modern electrical system, modern HVAC, Solar panels on the roof, remove lead paint inside and out, new siding, new driveway and sidewalks ECT. Then make a realistic budget for each goal and total it up the number is likely to shock you. You did not say it but it sounds like you want to redo everything just slowly and one at a time that will make everything take longer and cost more and do you want to live in a construction site for the next 20 years? Lots of us have a soft spot for old building but a gut rehab never makes financial sense with paid labor and if you do the labor yourself the material costs alone can sink a project.
In the end if the only original parts left are the buried in the walls and the rubble foundation what is the point.
Deep energy retrofit projects almost never make economic sense.
You could likely bulldoze the place and build something much better for way less money that would look the same or better.
Walta
Walta,
"Before you spend any money on this building write down your end point goal... then make a realistic budget... and total it up... Lots of us have a soft spot for old building but a gut rehab never makes financial sense with paid labor and if you do the labor yourself the material costs alone can sink a project."
This is sound advice.
Thank you for that advice Walta, I appreciate the point of view, and the question of the end goal is definitely something that I grapple with. Its interesting when I look around the neighborhood, this house is one of the last ones that basically occupies its original footprint, with the only change being an existing sun room that was enveloped into the livable space in the 60s. Our total sq/ft is around 1500, and from the looks of it about half the size of many of the same houses that have had major additions put on. Maybe I'm naïve, but it's never been my instinct to add to the size of the house, after all this floorplan has already supported a family of 4. We are only 2 people, however being 30 y/o things can obviously change. My thoughts for this place have always been generally two things: 1) To upgrade/replace any damaged or unhealthy parts of the interior space, but in a way that keeps the original design intent 2) To overhaul the envelope in a way that makes the 75 y/o building last at least an additional 75 years and helps to reduce its continued carbon impact.
The health part of the first goal is really important to me. In my early 20s I had a pretty significant exposure to asbestos, and that has made me very alert to my environment. When it comes to this house for instance, our primary room is directly above the garage, with no air sealing, and very large cracks in the decorative plaster of the garage; in addition to multiple dingy crawl spaces, and a low level of radon w/o any radon mitigation system. Luckily no asbestos in the building materials that I've found as of yet. Even in the event that the second major goal (the exterior) is something that I don't end up pursuing, or just hold off on, these health concerns are things that I don't feel like I can linger on for too many years. These goals have influenced our first two major renos, including a full gut of the bathroom that had a long term leak, and the renovation of the primary bedroom & family room. We also had to deal with a wet basement every rainstorm, and did a full trench drain and burried gutter system, with a new retaining wall in the backyard. Up until now, all of this work has been done by my partner and myself. The next projects in line are ones that I start to put that method into question. Despite me having the experience and skills to do these projects, and her having the drive and interest to fully dive into them with me, I have to balance that our time is money. And as you've said, do we want to live in a construction site for 20 years? I did that in my teen years, and it was not very fun...
I'm sorry for the long post and brain dump, but this is where I am stuck. If I start to make medium size impacts on "the building as a system" like air sealing the garage, insulating various interior wall cavities as we renovate rooms, enclosing the two crawl spaces, etc.; does it not make sense to follow through until completion? What's the point in sticking insulation in the walls if its only in certain areas and the whole building is still leaky? What's the point in air sealing the garage if the "exhaust only" ventilation system that currently exists, is going to suck in poor air from elsewhere? What's the point in repainting the existing aluminum siding, if I know that moisture is uncontrollably getting to the structure below? Do I pull one layer of siding off, and then turn the wooden siding below into an air barrier/drainage plane for new cladding? Leaving the original "sheathing" and siding trapped in the finished wall? Or do I go all of the way to the studs so I can work cleanly from the structure out? Would I just be doing this for the sake of matching up perfectly with some detail drawing on GBA, while wasting money/resources unnecessarily? These are the "end goal" questions that I've been repeatedly asking myself for a while now.
You're probably right, knocking down the building and putting up a new one would be quicker, maybe it would cost less in dollars... certainly not in carbon impact, and like you've said I have a soft spot for old buildings... Most of this barely correlates to the original post regarding framing, again I apologize for that, but its connected to the overall questions that post was related to as I put together a plan for a major overhaul of the building.
Thanks for taking the time to read, and the above responses!
Aaron
Aaron,
You sound like you have given this a lot of thought. I'd take ohioandy's advice and do it in discrete chunks. That means you can always re-evaluate your aims as things progress. The projects I've seen get into real trouble are the total guts where once you are into it there is no option but to carry on.
Given the age of this home the elephant in the room is the lead paint that likely covers every surface inside and out can you find a cost-effective way to remove it without removing the charm of the original surfaces you are clearly in love with.
Note I think encapsulation of lead is a temporary solution to a permanent problem and not a long-term answer.
Like I said most of us have a soft spot for old houses if the math does not work let it go.
Walt