New home – window choices
Will try to keep this short….looking for opinions/discussion on window choices for new home we’re building. We’re located in eastern Nebraska so we get the “best” of types of weather….hot/humid summers and frigid cold winters. House will be on a lake and back of house will be nearly due north. Vast majority of glass of house is on the back (north side)….trying to maximize lake views. Front of house has only a couple windows (one in a closet, one in the laundry) and sides of house also have minimal glass, so solar heat-gain really not a factor for us. With all that glass on the north side and the nasty northerly winds we get in the winter we are very concerned with maximizing window efficiency. From all the reading we’ve done we’re thinking that we need to invest in getting the lowest U-values we can afford and the the SHGC is really not that important due to low amounts of glass in southern-exposure windows. We’re thinking that triple-pane glass is probably the way to go, but aren’t 100% sure. We’re also very confused about what types of frames are best (so MANY choices!). Main brand names used in our area are Pella and Marvin, although we have also heard good things locally about Gerkin vinyl windows.
Anyone care to comment?
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Replies
Dave,
You need triple-glazed windows. More information:
Choosing Triple-Glazed Windows
All About Glazing Options
Martin -
Thanks for quick response! Assumimg we go the triple-pane/triple-glaze route, what about the frames? How important is the frame material? Martin has their Ultrex (full or combo with wood); Pella has their Aluminum-clads, their Duracast fiberglass composite, and their vinyl....there are just so many choices and everyone will tell you that theirs are "best". (Also, we've heard that Pella is coming out with a new, improved line of insulated vinyl windows in the next month or so that will have a triple-pane option...any word on those??)
Your closet and laundry room will be the most pleasant spaces in the house come winter!
As the Greek philosopher Aeschylus wrote more than 2000 years ago: "Only primitives & barbarians lack knowledge of houses turned to face the Winter sun."
Sorry, I quite well understand the human need for vistas, just can't understand our inability to take advantage of free heat in the form of passive solar gain.
Dave
the Intergrity units do not have a triple pane option. Going Marvin, you will have to go Marvin Premium, and trust me, the triple pane Marvins are a true premium...very expensive. Pella only offers the triple pane in the Designer series, which is not a true sealed triple pane. It is only a sealed double pane with a unsealed 3rd layer for "dust protection" for their expensive blinds.
I am a fan of fiberglass, and have gotten quotes from Thermax, Inline, and Fibertec. They are not that much more expensive then the Pella fiberglass options, and allow tons of glass options. I am also looking into some high end vinyl windows as well.
Jesse -
Thanks for update. I have rec'd price quote for the Marvin triple-panes and you're right...they are very expensive. Unfortunately, I think that any true triple-pane window is going to carry a similar premium on the cost side.
I think we may end up doing a combination of windows where we "upspend" for triple-panes for those in the living areas and go with good double-panes in the bedrooms, etc. Now to decide if we're going with clad, fiberglass, vinyl, etc....as I said earlier....there are so many choices!!
Dave
Check out the links Martin posted, as well as check into the fiberglass companies I suggested. Even looking at their double pane options, their air sealing tests and overall u values still beat anything from pella, marvin (integrity), anderson, etc. The Inline windows were roughly 10-20% higher then the Pella Impervia numbers, quote wise.
Thanks Jesse.....guess I know what I'll be busy doing this evening!
sorry, clarifcation. I said "thermax"....which isnt correct. I have insulated sheathing on my mind! It is actually Thermotech is the window company.
Dave, it sounds like you want comfort out the the windows. You probably won't be happy with our windows (2 pane or 3 pane that is less than 1") you'll need the full thickness glass (1 3/8) that Martin and others here have referenced.
Accurate Dorwin of Winnepeg, Manitoba has excellent customer service and they were quick to get my questions answered from the quotes and questions I requested, Cory Lowen was a big help . Inline is another excellent choice too. I have seen their windows on an open house of a PH project by Sonya Newenhouse in southwestern Wisconsin ( google "Newenhouse"). I have found them to be the ones I will use when I retrofit my house in southeast SD. I also requested quotes from Duxton, Thermotech, and Fibertec but spotty reponse.
Lastly, you may want to consider how much your paying for the R value of your average window to install--that is the comfort you will get as you sit next to the glass when it is 20 below and the northwest wind is howling at 30 to 40 knots.
From my quotes I have received: AD and Inline, the R 5 canadian windows Cost per R valuse is at $190-280 per R.
Pella, Marvin/Integrity, Milgard (R3 to 3.3) and Thermotech (R5) canadian came to 310-470 per R. Shipping and install not included. Good luck!
Thank you to everyone for your input. We have reached out and asked for/received pricing quotes from several of the companies mentioned (Accurate Dorwin, Inline, Fibretec)....overall we've been pretty pleased with the numbers we've gotten back.
We have an additional issue/question that has come up.....from reading other posts on here as well as on other sites, it seems quite a few people have been having issues with condensation on windows when they've used Marvins....particularly the Marvin Ultrex (their version of fiberglass).
Is this something that anyone else here has experienced? From the reading we've done, it appears that the Marvins are a non-insulated fiberglass frame...is that correct? Could that be one of the reasons for issues with condensation? Will this "threat" be reduced with the use of an insulated fiberglass frame?
Dave W,
There are two ways to lower the risk of condensation on windows: lower the indoor relative humidity -- in winter, that means increase the ventilation rate -- or raise the temperature of the glass (usually done by switching from double to triple glazing). Condensation on window frames is rare; the glass is almost always colder than the frames in winter.
If you install double-glazed windows and have problems with condensation, increase the runtime of the fans used to ventilate your house.
If I was building a new house in eastern Nebraska, though, I'd spec triple glazing.
what are the pros views on higher end vinyl windows? Products like Softlite Elements have very impressive leakage ratings (or should I say lack there of....02, u around .17 on triple panes) as well as u values on their glazing options. I have also seen them in person, and they open and close very very smoothly, and fit and finish of the typical ugly welded vinyl seams are trimmed and sanded smooth. I am typically a fan of fiberglass, however if you are looking for high performance yet need to cost a little cost, vinyl appears to be a good option. A price came in about 100-200 lower per window for a triple glaze vs a double glaze Inline or Fibertec. It is the fine line between what is "better". Buying a no so green product or buying a product that will save more energy?
I've used Window World in the past and have been very happy. Believe it or not, they only charge $189 per window INSTALLED. For any size window. That means you can have quadruple glazing by installing two windows per opening. $378 per hole. Remember, whoever installs your windows will charge at least $50 per window.
And I'm willing to bet that two of these decent vinyl windows seal against air infiltration as well as one expensive window. (Having two windows reduces the pressure across the seals, so a cheap seal will work much better than usual).
Does this company understand about the advantages of high SHGC glass? Absolutely not. Would that be a LOT of vinyl? Yes. Would this configuration save some cost when trimming the interior? Probably. Have I seen it done? Not yet.
http://www.windowworld.com/stores/nebraska/omaha/
They can provide low e glass, warm edge spacer, and argon at added cost. However, the savings due to these features are greatly reduced when you use two windows in series as I'm proposing.
Crazy? maybe. But food for thought anyway. Although I prefer fiberglass windows, homebuyers can't see the difference, so the resale value is the same.
This has been said a few times elsewhere on this site, but be careful that you (or the lumberyards) don't confuse the domestic Thermo-Tech with the Canadian Thermotech.