Replies

1. 
   Aedi | Apr 25, 2019 02:56pm | #1

   A particularly good article that comes to mind is Martin's "Are Affordable Ground-Source Heat Pumps On the Horizon?":
   https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/are-affordable-ground-source-heat-pumps-on-the-horizon

2. 
   AlanB4 | Apr 25, 2019 03:22pm | #2

   Here is the system/article posted today
   https://electrek.co/2019/04/25/geothermal-heating-system-dandelion-coned/

1. Expert Member
   Dana Dorsett | Apr 25, 2019 05:45pm | #3

   Even with their cookie cutter system design, drilling neighborhoods en masse to save on logistics costs, access to low cost capital and other cost reductions, the average system Dandelion is installing is priced at ~$37K, and only affordable with federal, state, local and utility company subsidies.

   That number is per this recent interview with Dandelion CEO Kathy Hunnun (at about the 10 minute mark):

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maOZ4reaesg

   Their margin on that is enough for them to stay in business, but Hunnun is coy about what their gross margins really are (not surprisingly for any startup biz CEO.)

   She somehow manages to make some truly idiotic non-factual statements along the lines of " the earth is as always roughly 50 degrees when you're six feet or below. (At about the 6 minute mark.) That may be approximately true in Poughkeepsie or Peoria, but it's definitely far from factual in Palm Springs & Palmer Alaska. The differences in subsoil temperature is something that anybody in her biz really SHOULD be aware of, and it seems sloppy to make that statement without making it location-specific. It's not even true for all of NY state, even if its' sort-of the case for Hudson Valley locations where most of their installations have taken place.

   Their real innovation is the on the financing structure and business model end, much of which they borrow (admittedly) directly from the rooftop solar businesses.

   BTW: Did you notice the lack of foundation insulation and myriad likely air leak points in the home covered in the Electrek/NBR video? I can't help but wonder how much they would have "saved" by applying a quarter the money on fixing up all the low hanging fruit in that house and the rest on properly sized air source heat pumps + rooftop PV.

1. 
   AlanB4 | Apr 27, 2019 06:49am | #4

   I didn't watch the video but i do know about Geothermal's issues
   It would be nice to have an updated article to link on their advertisement posts.

1. GBA Editor
   Martin Holladay | Apr 27, 2019 07:20am | #5

   Alan,
   GBA does not insert any links into advertisements. I hope that GBA readers are sophisticated enough to read any advertisement with skepticism.

   The ground-source heat pump article suggested by Aedi in Comment #1 ("Are Affordable Ground-Source Heat Pumps On the Horizon?") is still relevant. I see no particular reason to update it. There haven't been any fundamental developments since that article was written to change my advice.

1. 
   AlanB4 | Apr 27, 2019 07:45am | #6

   I meant for when they advertise elsewhere, i have seen a fair number of geothermal articles extolling its virtues and not acknowledging the headaches. Including non advertisements i can think of maybe half a dozen at CleanTechnica recently who mean well but don't know geothermal nearly as well as GBA readers.

   I think Dana's comment plus more details could be turned into an article for specifically their "solution"

   Here is the Electrek article btw
   https://electrek.co/2019/04/25/geothermal-heating-system-dandelion-coned/

2. GBA Editor
   Martin Holladay | Apr 27, 2019 08:21am | #7

   Alan,
   I don't know much about the Electrek web site, but that article specifically notes that this information comes from a "sponsor." The term "sponsored content" is the new phrase used by web sites to describe advertising. A great many web sites publish "articles" which turn out to be "sponsored content," whether labeled or unlabeled -- in other words, disguised advertising. Let the reader beware.

3. 
   AlanB4 | Apr 27, 2019 08:26am | #8

   @Martin
   Yeah its advertising, They did a similar article on CleanTechnica a few months ago though the other articles about geothermal have not been advertising.

4. 
   Jon_R | Apr 27, 2019 12:38pm | #9

   I'd find a reference that is clear that GSHPs can sometimes use an existing well and this has a big effect on cost effectiveness. Could be < $3K for the heat pump (Carrier 50PCV036JWC5AAC1 on Amazon) itself, which is similar to prices for furnace/AC combinations and central ASHPs. Installation labor should also be similar (but may not be).