Ground source heat pump replacement
I could really use some help on some equipment replacement. My house has two 3-ton ClimateMaster Tranquility heatpumps hooked up to a closed loop well. One of the pumps has a refrigerant leak and has slowly been deteriorating in performance. The best I could get out of it this winter was 85 degree or so air and that was after a recharge. Even with a 10 kW electrical backup the house got into the low sixties when we had a 24 hour cold snap in MA. So I’m thinking I need to replace it as that was over a very mild winter.
I have a quote to replace the bad unit with a new Geo Comfort model Gyt036e10mt1nrs 2 stage packaged heat pump (heat pump+air handler) with built in electrical heater backup. The quote is above $25K. Can anyone weigh in on ballpark pricing for this type of system (located in MA)? I realy have no reference point
Any suggestions for contractors with experience w/ ground source heat pumps in eastern MA?
Separately should I consider just abandoning the “geothermal” system and going to an air-to-air heatpump (ductless is not an option as we don’t want minisplits visible on the first floor. My assumption is that since we already have a functioning closed loop well the economics would be in favor of a ground source heat pump but I really don’t know. The house came with the system and it’s about 15 years old. Well seems to be in good condition.
Thanks for any help
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> The quote is above $25K. Can anyone weigh in on ballpark pricing for this type of system (located in MA)? I realy have no reference point
I don't know about geothermal, but I've recently seen pricing a relative got for a 3.5 ton hyper-heat air-source heat pump in CT, and it was like 19K. Geothermal is still kind of a niche luxury product - and may stay that way since air source is getting popular - so I suspect you will pay more for anything geothermal as a result.
> My assumption is that since we already have a functioning closed loop well the economics would be in favor of a ground source heat pump but I really don’t know. The house came with the system and it’s about 15 years old. Well seems to be in good condition.
Ground source heat pumps are going to be more efficient at more extreme temperatures. It might be worth checking into how many days a year you experience temps below 0F. Newer air source heat pumps (like the Mitsubishi HyperHeat models) still achieve COPs > 1 well below freezing temps. While it may seem like a waste to abandon the ground loop, I'm not sure how much $ or energy it will actually save you vs the cost difference. If you assume the $19K for the air source vs the $25k for the geothermal, I suspect that it will take a longer than the equipment's lifetime for the ground source heat pump to pay back the $6000 difference in price, even with MA's very high electricity prices. Otherwise, we'd be seeing a rash of people installing ground source heat pumps, which isn't happening.
Maybe get a few quotes on low-temperature capable air source heat pumps to compare.
Well for a reference, I'm on the other side of the country in MONTANA. I am currently building a house and have a GSHP installed. The total installation prices is $61,000. That does include a mini split in my bonus room above the garage. So minus say $8k. So $53,000 total system with 2 zones installed. With the 30 percent back in federal tax credits, I'm down to about $43,000. That's about the same as quotes I was getting for a heat pump system with furnace backup.
And the saving are more than most "heat pump" guys lead on. Especially if you get the desuperheater option for heating your domestic hot water. If I lived further south a heat pump might be the way to go, but I don't think the efficiency at lower temps is quite there yet.
Huge downside to GSHP is the replacement cost down the road.
If I were you and lives in MA where you have the potential to have very bad winters, I would keep my GSHP.
pay someone to do an updated load calculation and energy usage audit. Then you will know exactly what your payback will be for each system.
I paid someone other than my installer to do one and my pay back was just over 7 years. That's pretty good.
I have always wounders if the root cause for the coil failures in ground source systems is the water chemistry\PH?
When you compare bid make sure you understand if the bid enclouds a new “flow center” often a separate unit that pumps the water thru the loop.
You may get more opinions on the Geo Exchange Forum.
https://www.geoexchange.org/forum/
Walta
I would check out waterfurnace. When I looked into Geo I really liked that they actually make their installers/reps go through training to properly install their product and maintain/fix them. I have two co workers that installed waterfurnace's when they built in the mid 2000's. Neither of them have had any problems and still seem to be doing as good as when they were installed. I would check out their website to find an installer near you. I find it hard to believe replacing the unit cost more than a whole new heat pump system. If the price comes in high maybe let them know what a heat pump costs? See if they come down at all? I'm sure the continuation of the 30 percent tax break is driving prices up.
“I find it hard to believe replacing the unit cost more than a whole new heat pump system.”
Why what he is buying is a new heat pump system that fits in a box in his basement and reusing the pipes buried in the yard.
Pumps costs more to buy than fans. Water cooled coils cost more than air cooled coils.
Hundreds likely thousands of air source systems are sold for every ground source unit sold the economies of scale make the air source unit less costly to build.
Walta