The Fujitsu units have a higher heating capacity per nominal rating across the board. They also have an awesome 9k, 12k, 18k slim duct lineup. I think you would be happy with either manufacturer. I would focus on finding an installer you trust. Quality of installation and support in the future will likely be much more valuable than half a COP. Also those numbers are measured at very specific operating conditions, i would use them directionally more than anything else.
Some of the Mitsu, Fujitsu, and others (even mr cool non-DIY) can be found online. If you're somewhat technically savvy and willing to study a bit, you can probably get your EPA 608 card. Add a vacuum pump & gauge, flare tool, torque wrenches, and you could probably just install whatever you want by yourself . No warranty, but looking at some of those prices you could buy two whole units and all the tools and still come out ahead!
So I had the same experience. I ended up installing a ductless Fujitsu unit for my first floor on my own as well as a ducted unit for the upstairs. I found a local one man hvac contractor to pressure test and vacuum the line sets for me. I bought the units online so no parts warranty, but you are right. When you can buy a whole new unit for $2k, it sure beats paying ridiculous labor costs.
Something you might consider is contacting a local tech college with a good reputation and inquiring if they are in need of demo installations for their HVAC students.
This would likely take longer and be more disruptive than a professional install and would not carry a warranty, but the students would be trained with best practices and not have financial incentives to cut corners. There would also be adult supervision.
Even if the school is uninterested, you might find faculty willing to take on side work, or even just want to stay current on new technology.
Just curious, but what part of the country are you in? I am having the EXACT same experience as you in SW New Hampshire, and I have also been considering getting a handyman and electrician to help me install a few Mr. Cool DIYs. One installer was so offended when I politely requested a detailed load calculation instead of his quick eyeball estimate, he raised his voice and said "if you don't like the way we do it, go find someone else to do it" and hung up on me.
I'm in Southern CT on the shoreline near New Haven. After getting ridiculous pricing as well I self installed a 12k Midea Premier and a 12k Gree Sapphire. Both are Hyperheat Units and the Midea was $1k and the Gree was $1300. I am a former auto mechanic and found the install simple and took like 4 or 5 hours. Total cost with some tools and other pieces for me to install the was less than $3k. All the installers around here wanted $10k+ for 2 12k units. I could buy 5 or 6 more entire units and still be ahead. In most of the world these are cheap disposable appliances. If my compressor goes I am just buying an entire new outdoor unit for a few hundred. The warranty from Mitsubishi is the part only. Its not cheap to have to pay HVAC labor. So if your compressor on your Mitsubishi goes they will send you a compressor but your paying the labor to replace it.
My Midea and Gree have been running for 3 years nonstop with zero issues. Midea and Gree actually make most of the mini splits out there. Mr Cool and Carrier, Pioneer, Senville are all rebadged Mideas.
That Mr Cool unit would probably work fine in your location. I would buy it from Costco as they sell them and have a grest warranty/return policy.
I sympathize, man, I really do. When I had a new system installed, I experienced the same thing.
Also, you are absolutely right that, in many cases, a 10 or 12 year warranty is a complete sham. I paid about $10k for a Trane XV18. At the 3 year mark, the evaporator coil developed a leak and was replaced "under warranty." Well, sure, I didn't pay for the coil itself, but you know what I did pay? $1500 for labor, and another $1000 to replace 10 lbs of refrigerant with new refrigerant. So $2500 for an evaporator coil replacement "under warranty." For a system I paid $10k for less than 3 years ago. Wonderful.
For the record, I don't blame the company that did the replacement work. They were great and obviously somebody has to pay them for the 6 hours they were here doing the replacement. I've just learned its very misleading to think you have a 10 year warranty on something, but the labor and other non-warranty costs (like refrigerant) which make up 75% or more of the repair costs are not covered. Makes the warranty almost worthless.
I have no experience w/ Fujitsu but do with LG and Mitsubishi and I must say I am most unhappy w/ Mitsubishi's diamond-certified installers for overpricing and not being willing to stick to the plans and design intent. Also Mitsubishi seems to purposely make their install instruction lacking to force you to stick to their overpriced installers. Got quoted $40-something thousand for about $10k worth of equipment. Ended up buying the equipment myself, hiring a lackluster installer to install 1/3 of it, I installed the other 2/3 myself, had same installer come back out to startup and gas the system. Total install bill was $3,800. LG had nice controls and worked well; seemed to be a simpler install.
I had planned to purchase a Mitsubishi MUZ-FS12NAH to replace one of our current mini-splits, but ruled it out due to the way that the pan heater operates. As I understand it, the pan heater which draws 130-watts kicks on whenever ambient air temperatures fall below 0°C, and remains on until it climbs back above freezing. Other manufacturers offer a more intelligent control system whereby it engages whenever the unit enters defrost mode, and shuts off five or ten minutes thereafter. In our local climate, this would reduce our home's energy requirements by 300 or so kWh per annum.
Hopefully, someone will correct me if I'm wrong in this. I had contacted Mitsubishi's customer support group to verify my understanding, but never received a reply.
I highly doubt the pan heater stays on. I have monitored the electrical consumption on many mini splits of different brands and have never seen a pan heater stay on like that. Hyper heat units do have a compressor warmer that comes on but they usually use less than 30 watts.
I'm not sure how to correctly interpret what is described in the NEEP entry for this model, but it states:
"A.) Heat mode is selected. B.) The ambient temperature thermistor reads 32F or less for 5 minutes continuously. C.) The defrost thermistor reads 30.2F or less for 5 minutes. D.) Outdoor fan motor is turned ON."
With that said, the MUZ-FS12NAH has an HSPF rating of 11.5 versus 12.0 for the MUZ-FS12NA, which is, I believe, the identical model without a pan heater. If my thinking is correct, that translates to be a seasonal COP of 3.37 for the NAH as opposed to 3.52 for the NA, which means that the former consumes roughly four to five per cent more energy over the course of the space heating season, all of which can be presumably attributed to the operation of the pan heater.
By comparison, the Fujitsu AOUG12LZAH1 and AOUG12LZAS1, which are, from all outward appearances, the same model with and without a pan heater, clocks in at 13.8 and 14.0 respectively, a much smaller difference in the order of one and a half per cent.
Again, I may talking through my hat here, but it appears that the Mitsubishi pan heater logic is less than optimum.
did you ever figure out if the pan heater is always on when temp is <32 degrees? or do those A, B, C, D statements operate together and its smarter than that?
We went with Fujitsu ducted and ductless due to their efficient heat output plus having the ability to vertically mount the indoor unit. We're in a heating dominant climate and only run the air conditioning 3-5 weeks per year. The Mitsubishi had a nice inline filter that could be purchased for their ducted. Our HVAC installer had it replicated at the sheet metal shop to fit the Fujitsu return air intake.
Replies
The Fujitsu units have a higher heating capacity per nominal rating across the board. They also have an awesome 9k, 12k, 18k slim duct lineup. I think you would be happy with either manufacturer. I would focus on finding an installer you trust. Quality of installation and support in the future will likely be much more valuable than half a COP. Also those numbers are measured at very specific operating conditions, i would use them directionally more than anything else.
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Some of the Mitsu, Fujitsu, and others (even mr cool non-DIY) can be found online. If you're somewhat technically savvy and willing to study a bit, you can probably get your EPA 608 card. Add a vacuum pump & gauge, flare tool, torque wrenches, and you could probably just install whatever you want by yourself . No warranty, but looking at some of those prices you could buy two whole units and all the tools and still come out ahead!
So I had the same experience. I ended up installing a ductless Fujitsu unit for my first floor on my own as well as a ducted unit for the upstairs. I found a local one man hvac contractor to pressure test and vacuum the line sets for me. I bought the units online so no parts warranty, but you are right. When you can buy a whole new unit for $2k, it sure beats paying ridiculous labor costs.
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Something you might consider is contacting a local tech college with a good reputation and inquiring if they are in need of demo installations for their HVAC students.
This would likely take longer and be more disruptive than a professional install and would not carry a warranty, but the students would be trained with best practices and not have financial incentives to cut corners. There would also be adult supervision.
Even if the school is uninterested, you might find faculty willing to take on side work, or even just want to stay current on new technology.
Just curious, but what part of the country are you in? I am having the EXACT same experience as you in SW New Hampshire, and I have also been considering getting a handyman and electrician to help me install a few Mr. Cool DIYs. One installer was so offended when I politely requested a detailed load calculation instead of his quick eyeball estimate, he raised his voice and said "if you don't like the way we do it, go find someone else to do it" and hung up on me.
Deleted
I'm in Southern CT on the shoreline near New Haven. After getting ridiculous pricing as well I self installed a 12k Midea Premier and a 12k Gree Sapphire. Both are Hyperheat Units and the Midea was $1k and the Gree was $1300. I am a former auto mechanic and found the install simple and took like 4 or 5 hours. Total cost with some tools and other pieces for me to install the was less than $3k. All the installers around here wanted $10k+ for 2 12k units. I could buy 5 or 6 more entire units and still be ahead. In most of the world these are cheap disposable appliances. If my compressor goes I am just buying an entire new outdoor unit for a few hundred. The warranty from Mitsubishi is the part only. Its not cheap to have to pay HVAC labor. So if your compressor on your Mitsubishi goes they will send you a compressor but your paying the labor to replace it.
My Midea and Gree have been running for 3 years nonstop with zero issues. Midea and Gree actually make most of the mini splits out there. Mr Cool and Carrier, Pioneer, Senville are all rebadged Mideas.
That Mr Cool unit would probably work fine in your location. I would buy it from Costco as they sell them and have a grest warranty/return policy.
I sympathize, man, I really do. When I had a new system installed, I experienced the same thing.
Also, you are absolutely right that, in many cases, a 10 or 12 year warranty is a complete sham. I paid about $10k for a Trane XV18. At the 3 year mark, the evaporator coil developed a leak and was replaced "under warranty." Well, sure, I didn't pay for the coil itself, but you know what I did pay? $1500 for labor, and another $1000 to replace 10 lbs of refrigerant with new refrigerant. So $2500 for an evaporator coil replacement "under warranty." For a system I paid $10k for less than 3 years ago. Wonderful.
For the record, I don't blame the company that did the replacement work. They were great and obviously somebody has to pay them for the 6 hours they were here doing the replacement. I've just learned its very misleading to think you have a 10 year warranty on something, but the labor and other non-warranty costs (like refrigerant) which make up 75% or more of the repair costs are not covered. Makes the warranty almost worthless.
I have no experience w/ Fujitsu but do with LG and Mitsubishi and I must say I am most unhappy w/ Mitsubishi's diamond-certified installers for overpricing and not being willing to stick to the plans and design intent. Also Mitsubishi seems to purposely make their install instruction lacking to force you to stick to their overpriced installers. Got quoted $40-something thousand for about $10k worth of equipment. Ended up buying the equipment myself, hiring a lackluster installer to install 1/3 of it, I installed the other 2/3 myself, had same installer come back out to startup and gas the system. Total install bill was $3,800. LG had nice controls and worked well; seemed to be a simpler install.
I had planned to purchase a Mitsubishi MUZ-FS12NAH to replace one of our current mini-splits, but ruled it out due to the way that the pan heater operates. As I understand it, the pan heater which draws 130-watts kicks on whenever ambient air temperatures fall below 0°C, and remains on until it climbs back above freezing. Other manufacturers offer a more intelligent control system whereby it engages whenever the unit enters defrost mode, and shuts off five or ten minutes thereafter. In our local climate, this would reduce our home's energy requirements by 300 or so kWh per annum.
Hopefully, someone will correct me if I'm wrong in this. I had contacted Mitsubishi's customer support group to verify my understanding, but never received a reply.
I highly doubt the pan heater stays on. I have monitored the electrical consumption on many mini splits of different brands and have never seen a pan heater stay on like that. Hyper heat units do have a compressor warmer that comes on but they usually use less than 30 watts.
I'm not sure how to correctly interpret what is described in the NEEP entry for this model, but it states:
"A.) Heat mode is selected. B.) The ambient temperature thermistor reads 32F or less for 5 minutes continuously. C.) The defrost thermistor reads 30.2F or less for 5 minutes. D.) Outdoor fan motor is turned ON."
With that said, the MUZ-FS12NAH has an HSPF rating of 11.5 versus 12.0 for the MUZ-FS12NA, which is, I believe, the identical model without a pan heater. If my thinking is correct, that translates to be a seasonal COP of 3.37 for the NAH as opposed to 3.52 for the NA, which means that the former consumes roughly four to five per cent more energy over the course of the space heating season, all of which can be presumably attributed to the operation of the pan heater.
By comparison, the Fujitsu AOUG12LZAH1 and AOUG12LZAS1, which are, from all outward appearances, the same model with and without a pan heater, clocks in at 13.8 and 14.0 respectively, a much smaller difference in the order of one and a half per cent.
Again, I may talking through my hat here, but it appears that the Mitsubishi pan heater logic is less than optimum.
did you ever figure out if the pan heater is always on when temp is <32 degrees? or do those A, B, C, D statements operate together and its smarter than that?
Deleted
We went with Fujitsu ducted and ductless due to their efficient heat output plus having the ability to vertically mount the indoor unit. We're in a heating dominant climate and only run the air conditioning 3-5 weeks per year. The Mitsubishi had a nice inline filter that could be purchased for their ducted. Our HVAC installer had it replicated at the sheet metal shop to fit the Fujitsu return air intake.
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Hi. Sorry to jump on an old thread
I noticed you installed ASUG09LZBS indoor unit. Does it have Wi-Fi?
Thank you