Foam board only for insulation, and a ? about foil-faced polyiso…
Hello all, I am a frequent visitor / reader but this is my first question. I’ll try to answer the anticipated “details, please!” stuff, but let me know if I’m leaving something out…
I’m a licensed contractor, but primarily cabinetry, built-ins, light remodeling. So I know my way around most of this trade, and know to ask when I don’t! We are renovating / updating an attic “bedroom” — I use quotes because, with only a 78″ ceiling height I can’t call it habitable space. It was only 74″ or so but I tore out a central section of roof to widen an existing 4′ wide shed dormer on the north side to 8′, and match it with one facing south. This is over the kitchen “ell” in a 1910 farm house in the mid-Willamette valley in Oregon, so wet and cool from Nov-Apr, warmer and mostly dry from May-Oct. The side walls are 46″ tall, with a 9:12 roof pitch, so we have a decent amount of the room with the 78″ ceiling height (and my wife and I are both well under 6′!). The horizontal ceiling plane will be insulated with fiberglass batts both between and over (across) the 2×8 joists that span across the newly framed dormer walls; I’ve already installed duravent baffles as necessary to ensure air washing of the sheathing / airflow to the roof vents. Once we get this all closed in, there will be no access to the very small “attic” that will be left, so I want to know it is “survivable” once the interior paint goes on! I am fine with sacrificing some energy efficiency for that — in any case it will be better than the hollow walls and *maybe* R-5 in the ceiling we had before we started!
Because we don’t have the budget to really tear down to studs both in and out, I chose to tack on 2″ strips to the existing studs to get to 2×6 wall thickness, (or, in the case of the all-new gable end, frame with 2×6’s) and will seal – caulk and/or foam – and insulate (again, fiberglass batts) in accordance with guidance I’ve found here. (I know the limits of fiberglass in terms of installation quality, but as I am doing it myself, it WILL be a quality installation!)
Where I get hung up is in the original rafter cavities, which are also 2×4, 24″ OC. (Two rafter bays on either side of the dormer, so 4 times about a 45″ x 75″ surface area each.) The rafters are capped with skip sheathing (old, generous 1×4) and then OSB / felt / asphalt shingles over that. (The re-roofed / re-sided part got a real test immediately in Jan with storm after storm, and I am confident the exterior shell is sound in terms of water intrusion.) I would like to not tack on material to the rafters, or at least not much, in order to preserve as much headroom at the sides as I can. So, I want to max out my R-value per inch in those cavities, while preserving ventilation for the underside of the sheathing(s).
I will have two airtight, IC recessed lights for general lighting, and will ensure they are completely sealed at installation, so there should be no inside air getting into the attic space from this room, but the roof meets the main bay of the house and the two attic spaces are open to each other by way of a couple main rafter bays, so if there are places elsewhere in this old house where interior air is getting to the attic, it could certainly migrate. No moisture issues observed when opened up, so I just want to make sure I’m not adding any new ones!
My “plan A” — unless someone can show me it’s not a good one — is to install a series of strips of 1/2″ XPS parallel to the rafters, probably a couple 6-7″ wide, with 1/2″ between them, (and rafters), to allow movement past the skip sheathing, then fill over those, tight between the rafters with sheets of XPS or ployiso to get to the face of the rafters, sealing the edges. I am also seriously thinking about adding an unbroken layer of 1/2″ on the inside face of the rafters before drywall as a thermal break.
My questions:
– Where, if anywhere, in this assembly should I look to incorporate a layer of foil-faced polyiso?
– Should I leave any air space between the last layer of foam and the back of the drywall? As I understand, I really should if I’m using foil-faced polyiso as that last layer. How much air space will reap the benefits of using that? I would face the foil towards the interior, right?
I welcome any other ideas besides spray foam. Just not going there.
Thanks!
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Replies
Vented like the rest of your roof, high R glass batts, then taped polyiso over rafters. Good enough for your climate, safe, great price, straight forward method you can enjoy and proudly build. Wife will not lose sleep over. You won't be back here with any horror stories.
AJ,
Thanks for the prompt response. I should add that, on the north-facing wall, there are no vents in the eaves, so there's really no driver for airflow up the rafter bays. On the south side, the opening at the bottom of the rafter bays is into the attic of an addition over about 400SF, which gets pretty hot. So those bays have the duravent baffles to above the planned ceiling batts. The north-facing bays would have the proposed XPS "vents" mostly to allow air movement past the skip sheathing to the OSB.
Just plain polyiso, then drywall? If I do that, then I'm either getting unfaced batts, or taking the paper off, correct?
If you are air conditioning and wanting additional drying to the interior, you could just add polyiso strips to the rafters, use thicker kraft glass, then drywall.
My other post was for unfaced glass.
Multiple moisture trapping materials scare me. And I have seen polyiso failures both used near drywall and exterior sheathing. Both had water intrusions that ended up being trapped and causing rot and mold.
So drying potential is key along with staying dry to start.
Use ridge and rafter vents. drill holes past blocks, up and or sideways. With a good roof and low interior humidity all will work. Start growing a thousand "plants" and some adjustments may be needed.