Fireplace in All-Electric House
We’d like to have a fireplace in our otherwise all-electric new home. We considered wood burning options, but ended up ruling them out due to the aggravation of starting the fire and cleaning ashes afterwards.
So as far as I can tell, that leaves us with two options – propane and natural gas. We don’t have natural gas at the property now, but there is a gas line about 400 feet away. Our builder is quoting about $6K to trench the gas line, and the gas company wants about $3K for a “connection fee”. Plus we’ll have a monthly service charge, no matter how much or little gas we use.
The other option is propane, which can be anything from a small above ground tank, to a larger underground tank. We’re concerned about the “looks” of an above ground tank, but the quote for an underground tank was almost $6K. And the cost of propane is higher than natural gas.
I hate the idea of putting in the infrastructure for natural gas, not to mention the monthly fee, but I like the invisibility and the maintenance free aspect of it. The propane option (especially one that is not underground) seems appealing in that it is less “permanent”, but I’m afraid that we may find it ugly.
Just wondering what other folks who want to be green have done when faced with the desire to have a fireplace?
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Replies
How about an electric fireplace? No chases, no chance for water leaks.
Thanks Armando, that would be ideal, if I could find one that looked realistic. Then again, I think that gas fireplaces are not all that realistic anyway (compared to wood burning), so maybe electric is a good option. Especially if we can save $15-20K compared to gas. Will research this some more.
Dimplex offers some very realistic-looking electric fireplaces. The Opti-V and Opti-Myst are very realistic looking and can be inserted into just about any fireplace surround.
Leon,
Commercial or larger residential projects have always dealt with this by building decorative screening for both generators and propane tanks.
A Google Image search for "Screen for propane tank" will give you some ideas.
Malcom, thanks for that tip, there are definitely some attractive (and some creative) screening ideas out there. I called a couple of propane tank leasing places, and was surprised to hear that while the leasing cost is not bad (~$300/year for 250 gal tank), the installation and gas routing is around $3K. Ouch!
The advantage of the propane and NG over electric is that it can give you a backup heating source when the power goes out. I looked at this as the cost of a generator and it's maintenance and it's noise vs. the cost of the NG or propane.
That is a valid point, and definitely needs to be considered. That was one of the arguments that the natural gas provider sales person kept touting, an "unlimited supply of gas for a generator".
Propane or a gas supply coupled with a generator gives you everything you would have if the power were on. The downside is of course the installation and running expenses aren't cheap.
If you decide to go propane, I think owning the tank is a much better option than renting.
For higher volume users they will often not charge for the tank and install but charge you more per gallon to refill the tank. Generally, not a good deal for the customer. With just a fireplace your usage will be too low for that plan.
If you rent the tank no other company can legally fill it.
5 years ago, I bought and had buried a 250 gallon tank for about $900 in a hole I had prepared and lined with sand.
I failed to ask for a gage so I have no way of knowing how much gas is in my tank.
With city gas yes you have an unlimited supply as long as the system if working but you have zero on site storage. In the unlikely event of a supply disruption or earth quake you have zero gas.
It seems like we are using about 15 gallons a year with just a fireplace.
Walt
I talked to a propane tank supplier, who said it's nearly impossible to buy a tank these days due to the supply chain issues. Another person (who leases tanks) offered to put in an above ground 250 gal tank, but said it'd cost $3000 to "connect" it, which sounded insane.
It all may be moot, turns out my wife is freaked out by the idea of large propane tanks, so I think there's a gas line in our future. Happy wife happy life :).
Is the removal of ashes the sole reason you are opposed to a wood stove? I can't help but contrast that tiny occasional chore against the cost and environmental impact of piping in natural gas or propane. This episode of the BS* + Beer Show might be of interest: Playing With Fire: Indoor Combustion.
Superior makes 10,000 BTU propane direct vent fireplaces, a 20 lb tank (4.6 gallons) has about 420,000 BTU, thus 42 hours runtime for 10,000 BTU direct vent fireplace. If you strung two or three together, that'd be 84 or 126 hours - is that enough for a winter season of ambience? Once a year refill may be better than digging a trench. A 10,000 BTU dv fireplace still looks pretty nice and smaller tanks are easier to "hide".
Consider Walt: "It seems like we are using about 15 gallons a year with just a fireplace".
Superior: https://superiorfireplaces.us.com/products/gas-fireplaces/drc2033/#specifications
Ethanol fireplace?
Why are you not considering the option of an electric fireplace? To correctly determine the required power, consider the size of the room. At least 1 kW is needed for 10 square meters if the fireplace is used as a decor. For the living room or bedroom, choose models with a power of about 2 kW. It is enough to maintain a comfortable temperature. You can contact a furniture rental company https://onstage-online.com/our-services and rent a fireplace to find out how convenient this option is for you.
Have you considered water vapor fireplaces?
They were recommended to us as we are pursuing a high-performance build (Pretty Good but not Passive House level) and were advised that our house would overheat with a traditional combustion fireplace of any sort.
We haven't reached the point of deciding on a particular brand of water vapour fireplace, but they look (to us at least) better than traditional electric fireplaces, and many do come with built-in electric resistance space heaters if you want them to generate heat.
Worth googling and checking out as an alternative to combustion -- especially if you're worried about indoor air quality.
I am facing the same decision, the fireplace is in a 4 season porch that is isolated from the rest of the house. From a design perspective, usage is only November to March. Fireplace should use combustion air from exterior and vent to exterior. Nothing wrong with Natural Gas you want a balanced portfolio. Pay attention to the BTUh output, the fireplace should have a timer, after a hour it should shutoff. Nothing wrong with a NG fireplace, other than after a hour you have heat to stay warm for the 2-3 hours you occupy the room.
I view a NG fireplace as an emergency source of heat when the grid becomes un-stabilized. Again, a balanced energy portfolio is the best defense for a resilient house.
We decided to go with a wood burning fireplace/stove. I didn't like any of the electric fireplaces I saw. And it bothered me to no end to be setting up a propane system, or to be routing a NG pipe from 400 feet away, just for a fireplace. My wife finally agreed that this makes the most sense, so that is our future (house is still in the design phase).
There are also holographic electric fire places. They project a hologram onto a physical set, basically the same fake logs you get in gas fireplaces.
Anyone have experience?
I originally wanted no fireplace for my all electric house, but my spouse likes the aesthetics of a fireplace. Although she was ok with an electric fireplace, I figured that if we have a fireplace it should at least function the way fireplaces have for centuries: as an off grid source of heat.
Solution: I went with an ethanol fireplace. Puts out 12KBTU/hr so works as a backup heat source if the power goes out in the winter. When we run it, I crank up the HRV and open some windows to maximize ventilation and minimize CO2/H2O buildup in the air.
The fuel is a bit pricey but we use so little that it hardly matters.