Skylight in Vaulted Ceiling
Manzur
| Posted in General Questions on
In my 4 year endeavor to build the most cost/space/energy efficient home, we came up with this design for a side by side. Still not content and want to move the W/D to Master Bath and have storage area in attic over bathrooms.
I want feedback about the design, but specially how to have a vaulted ceiling and skylight while having R50 roof? We are considering closed cell spray foam for exterior.
Also, how to save money in interior walls while having decent sound proofing?
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Replies
Overall, it's a pretty good design - with a few exceptions.
1. When guests arrive through the front door, where do they put their coats and shoes? Wet umbrellas? Anything they might be carrying?
2. On the main floor, the den at the back might someday be turned into another bedroom for someone with mobility issues (which would be fine since there is a full bath right next to it) but then that office space would have to be accessed through the new bedroom. I would move the wall between the office and den to the right so it lines up with the wall from the bathroom and make the den the office and the office the den (you can add a small hall with a separate door into the relocated office on the right later on).
3. If you use a pocket door for the pantry you can have a lot more shallow shelving along the walls.
4. I would reverse the appliance layout on the kitchen's right wall. As it is, you have a built in oven at the end of the run. That will probably be in a high cabinet which will cut off sightlines into the kitchen and make it feel closed in. I would do oven in the corner by the pantry, then a base cabinet, stove, and another base cabinet. This also means that the stove and sink are no longer directly opposite each other so two people can work in the aisle without backing onto each other.
5. I would leave the laundry where it is but use a stacked washer/dryer and include some more counter space or linen storage.
6. One last thing, I would move the wall between the master bedroom closet and the hall one foot to the right and install one foot deep floor to ceiling bookcases facing onto the stair. Imagine how nice it would be to see a library space, or perhaps a library/gallery wall as you come up the stairs instead of just looking at a blank wall?
Bonus: In looking at your exterior images, I think you're going to have trouble with those upturned roofs over the stairwells (unless you're planning on building a cricket roof between the main roof and the stairwell roof to shed water) but that would be an overly complex design. I would suggest a small gable roof over the stairwells to help get rid of water as well as not hold snow.
Thank you so so much for the thoughtful feedback. We will consider each of those seriously and share the outcome soon!!!
Deleted
Most codes have exemptions for compact roof sections that let you use lower R values for limited areas. Overall, the best way to save on cathedral ceilings is not to build them, instead think scissor truss with blown in fluffy insulation on top.
For sound control, the best and simples is simple double stud wall. You essentially build it like two houses separated by a 1/2" gap. The only thing connecting the two would be fire blocking, most code allow rigid mineral wool for that which reduces coupling. You don't want any joist or any beams connecting the two sides. Make sure your electric plan limits the amount of outlets and switches on the party wall and when you do put them make sure they are not in the same stud bay on two sides. If you really care about sound, make sure the drywall is installed in an air tight manner with caulk around the perimeter, spec at least two layers of 5/8" on one side in the bedroom area and insulate the floor joist bays by the party wall.
+1 on the gable instead of the reverse shed roof over the stairs. That is a problematic detail no matter how you build it.
Point on the gable ceiling is under consideration, after discussing with a roofer friend.
Thanks!!!
Agree with the above, especially the consideration of someone living on level 1. It happens when you least expect it.
Also, the master shower is too small, but you have plenty of space to make it larger. I'd make it the entire length of the wall opposite the toilet, and do a no door entrance across from the toilet.
Make sure the lowest level (garage level) bath is also roughed in for a shower.
Some really great points made by others.
The garage looks too tight for 2 vehicles. How does one on the passenger side of the car on the right exit the vehicle? I would look to redo the garage door width and remove what I'm assuming is storage shelving on the left side of the garage. Perhaps add overhead storage and/or high-wall storage.
I like the built in desk. I think it would be nice to add a small interior window or opening higher up over the desk as a nice design feature and to add some daylight to the desk from the stairwell area. (less cave-ish)
Re: Rockies item #1: This is the most significant miss IMO. There really isn't any place for shoes or coats on the main level that I can see. Maybe consider reconfiguring the den/office/bathroom space so that an entry closet is at the top of the stairs adjacent to the refrigerator?
steve41,
I agree. Some really useful feedback and ideas!
I think the ship has sailed on being able to use double garages to house two cars. They are now sized with the acknowledgment that at least half will be filled with excess household items needing storage, sports equipment, and maybe a small work bench. Many of the new units near me have overhead doors too narrow for all but the smallest compact cars.
Malcolm- this is interesting. It makes sense now, however painful it might be for future residents. I foresee a new teen driver looking puzzled at a side mirror laying in the driveway ;-)
I would almost rather have a deep garage with 2 cars inline.... which presents other challenges of course.
steve41,
It would be really interesting if we acknowledged that what people want is more flexible storage space, and then spent some time thinking what that looks like, and its best relationship to the house and street. Once the requirement that you can get a vehicle into it disappears, it opens up all sorts of other opportunities - not least of which is no longer having the front of houses dominated by huge overhead doors.
Living in a split entry that you cannot even stand on the landing to greet someone, yeah, wouldn't a coat closet be luxury! Adding one to the entry ought to be possible, parallel with the closet in the office space
In regards to coat and shoes, we plan to use the garden level area that will be build in. Thanks for highlighting the point, though!!!
You can do a raised heel scissor truss roof if you want a vaulted ceiling.
There's no reason to use foam on walls or ceiling in a new house. You'll spend more money for minimal extra R value. And petroleum foam is bad for the planet.
Front inner bedrooms have tiny closet. Feel like that could be fixed. Push the doors toward the hall, maybe a pair of 10x13 bedrooms with closets between instead of 11x11
[deleted missed the side view of the stairs,makes sense now]
No top floor linen closet. Could fit one next to the washer dryer
Mansur,
To your question about skylights in cathedral ceilings.
- If you you use trusses with enough depth to provide clear horizontal airspace, the skylight works as it would in any trusses roof.
- You can use an un-vented roof assembly, which means the skylight blocking the rafter cavity isn't an issue.
- If you strap the top of the rafters to provide a venting in both directions, the skylight blocking the rafter cavity isn't a problem.
Skip spray foam completely for the perimeter walls, insulate with batts instead. This will be a good cost savings, just be sure to do a good job air sealing the "old fashioned way" with canned foam and caulk. The only places to consider spray foam are the rim joist and vaulted ceiling areas, but those vaulted ceiling areas may be able to be vented, in which case they wouldn't need spray foam either.
For sound proofing of the dividing wall, I'd build this as a staggered stud or full double stud wall, two layers of 5/8" type X drywall on both sides. Try to minimize the amount of electrical devices (receptacles, switches, etc.) in either side of that wall, and any you do have put them in opposite stud bays (don't have an outlet on both sides of the wall in the same stud bay), and cover the backs of the boxes with fire putty pads sealed to the back of the drywall. If you want the exterior walls to do a bit better with sound proofing, use 5/8" drywall as a minimum, not 1/2", and consider two layers. You could step up to resilient channel, or decouple the wall as a staggered studwall with dense pack cellulose, but if you go that far your windows are likely to be the weak spot so you won't notice as much improvement as you might otherwise expect.
You may want to consider hanging the ceiling drywall under the bedroom floor on hat channel, which will help to limit sound from the living spaces from getting into the sleeping area. This can help cut down on people in the bedrooms from hearing late-night TV watching, for example.
An easy way to make ALL the walls a little better about soundproofing, and a lot more solid-feeling, is to use 5/8" drywall throughout the home. The cost difference to do this is usually a buck a sheet or less, and the labor to finish the drywall is exactly the same. This is a very cheap way to get a little bit better performance from your walls.
I would add some solid blocking under the washer and dryer in the laundry area to help cut down on sound transfer when they're running. You may want to consider a floor with some additional mass in there too (thick tile) for the same reason. I'd recommend some extra effort to soundproof the walls too, but with no door, there isn't much point.
Your mechanical room is likely too small. Electrical codes require at least three feet of "dead front" clearance from the face of the electric panel to the nearest obstruction in front, from floor to ceiling. You might just barely make that in that room with a panel mounted inside the wall, but you probably also need some mechanicals in there, which will have similar issues. It is VERY important to allow enough space to safely maintain the equipment in there, which means you need access on at least one side, ideally more than that. I try to design for a MINIMUM 42" service isle along a row of equipment. That's tight, but workable. For most commercial projects I actually design for 72" clear maintence isles, but that's usually not very practical in residential projects.
Bill
Bill