Entry-level European windows
Mauro_Zammarano
| Posted in General Questions on
Another question about windows….
I am looking for entry-level european windows, Tilt-turn style.
The color of the windows will be black (modern house).
I am ok with double glass windows with laminated vinyl, but it should be reinforced with metal or other means to prevent creep with hot weather in black windows.
Most companis seem to be dealing only with commercial lately. any suggestion?
Intus in DC was interesting but it is one of those compnies dealing only with commercial projects now.
Thanks!
GBA Detail Library
A collection of one thousand construction details organized by climate and house part
Search and download construction details
Replies
The Aluplast Ideal 4000 is a double pane Tilt/Turn that is actually NFRC rated. I believe this is one of the ones that Denco in Colorado imports. I just ordered my windows from Debesto, and they offer these as well. Locally made might be harder to find. Seemray in Ohio makes some that are somewhat budget friendly. I don't know if they offer double pane or just triple.
Hi Tim,
I would be interested in learning more about Debesto and the import process. Did you already receive your windows from them?
I have not yet, they are currently on the boat and due to arrive in October. They have different options for import, but I picked the one that is DDP in international shipping terms. They deliver them to your jobsite, customs paid and handled. In my case, they take a boat to New York, and then by rail to Chicago, where they finally get on a truck for the last mile.
Overall, the import process is simple from my end. They only sell to a "business." I filed an LLC and got an EIN. Not a big deal. The rest of the process was great, they meet by video conference, go through all the details with you, all the options. I think we met 4-5 times in total.
Once the windows arrive, I'll report back.
Great to hear!
I have a couple more specific questions. If you don't mind having a chat, could you email me at [email protected]?
Cheers!
No problem, I sent you an email. I was skeptical at first. At this point I have tracking for a shipping container at least. Material sourcing was a big part of the house build project I took on and spent a lot of time on. So far, that part of it I'm quite happy with it. No surprises so far!
Hi Tim do you have any update or feedback on the Aluplast 4000? Thank you!
Tim - may be you can give an update on your order with Debesto - did you receive windows and all went well?
Yep! Windows arrived. We ordered Salamander BluEvolution 82 and a front door in the same profile. Overall, the process went very smoothly. Windows were packaged really well, delivered to the jobsite with no hassle on my end. You could save a couple thousand handling the importing yourself, but I wasn't ready for that.
My only gripe was that the mounting hardware was limited. They say they only use the clips to mount everything including the doors. Other importers prove 7.5mm window screws. I ended up ordering some of these on Amazon.
I ordered custom-sized, dual-glazed Aluplast Ideal 4000 from a NY-based importer. Price was very reasonable. The windows arrive next month, so I can't speak to their quality yet.
@shedworkshop did you receive your Alluplast windows? Any fees back would be much appreciated thanks!
Fantastic, thank you! Folks like you make me love GBA :)
Why is it you want European windows?
- Is it because you care about the air tightness of the window?
- Is it because you specifically want a window that swings in?
- Some combination thereof?
Patrick,
first I am used to European windows because I moved to the USA when I was 30 yo.
When I compare an entry level uPVC american window to an entry level European window the first thing I notice is that European windows do have a metal reinforcement that prevents the window to sag due to creep. This is more important for dark colored windows like in my case and hot summers like in zone 4a. Triple pane windows being heavier should be even more subject than double pane to creep.
Other than that, European windows look (to me) sturdier, more durable and and seem more functional due to their tilt-turn design. I understand these aspects might be subjective but creep is a real problem that affects leaks and fucntionality
Understandable. I asked because often folks think it's the only way to get a well performing window.
I will say that I went through the full exercise and ultimately chose a combination of Andersen A-series fixed and casement windows because:
- The cost was comparable to a mixture of vinyl and wood European windows (in a double pane configuration).
- Casements provide similar air tightness advantages to tilt/turn.
- For me, the tilt/turn (in-swing) operability was a nuisance, not a feature.
- I didn't want any PVC interiors.
- There was no way to pencil out the price increase on triple-pane in climate zone 4A, and I have zero comfort issues with the glazing used.
Ok you were looking at higher quality windows then.
Can I ask you why you didn't want PVC interiors? it is just persornal preference or you are worried about checmicals leaching out?
u-PVC contains a low amount of processing aid and no phtalates or fire retardants which are usually the main component leaching out (and what you need to worry about more than PVC itself).
> Can I ask you why you didn't want PVC interiors?
It was a question of interior and exterior appearance. I didn't love the look of interior painted wood trim with the PVC. Exterior needed to be a different color, and though some of the film options look okay, it was not common to need a different exterior and interior color, which I would have. I can't remember if the producers I talked to could even offer different films on inside vs. outside.
vermak windows out of minnesota fabricates gealan s8000 which is more of an entry level product -- frame profile is around a .22 u factor. the frames have steel tubing and seemed pretty rigid when being installed with the sash out.
they do offer dual pane, which also uses a 1" igu -- 15/16 i think actually. 7 of my windows are dual pane with 7+4mm glass. really happy with them even in 0f weather.
igus/glass is from cardinal so you can get practically any glass/low-e combination you want.
their pricing was pretty good/competitive from the half a dozen quotes i ended up getting from different companies. i only have 9 windows and one patio door so shipping from europe was too rough on just a handful of windows in my case.
if you do end up wanting triple pane keep in mind they use the same 1" glazing bead. so the potential performance is limited by that. they can order up to a 1.5" IGU from cardinal and get the appropriate glazing bead shipped from europe if you ask, though.
Thank you! Interesting product. Do you know if they are NFRC certified? I would like to take advantage of incentives available for energy star products which - for what I understand -requires NFRC certification.
they are not.
i know that theres often local rebates based on energy star ratings, but the federal rebate is only up to $600 back and requires a " "ENERGY STAR Most Efficient " window -- a .20 or less requirement.
which is of course easy to meet, but NFRC certification isn't free and required for an energy star application. outside of marketing i don't know what the benefit is to the manufacture/fabricator.
My inspector would not pass windows that are not NFRC rated. Most jurisdictions don't have any issues with the European triple pane windows, but mine would have been a problem if they weren't NFRC rated. The code has no default value you can apply to a triple pane window either.
ah, well i guess theres a benefit :)
Thank you Tim! The county where I am building (montgomery county, MD) it is notoriously picky. I am not sure they actually require NFRC certification but I prefer to have it anyway for DOE certification purposes, Netzero ready etc.
I used Seemray out of Cleveland Ohio. They manufactured some of there windows in Cleveland and some in Germany. They are Rehau brand. Not sure if they have double pane but there triple pane were the cheapest quote I received and I've been very happy with the quality.
Thank you Josh. Can you share the model # you used?