Cost-effective insulation detailing for Sandy victims
I will be doing the rebuilding of 2 family member’s homes that were heavily damaged by Hurricane Sandy.I have been in the building trades for over 20 years.
Both houses have been unoccupied since the storm.My advice to them was to procede with construction when sufficient money was available to do a proper project,not a pieced together hack job just to get back into a house.
However,the money is very tight.The insurance settlements are barely adequate,and some tough choices will be made in the reconstruction.Neither place has structural damage,but both require new heating systems,electrical systems reworked,kitchens,flooring drywall,insulation,siding,etc.In addition,one house was found to have a fair amount of insect damage that must be addressed now.I will also be adding some hurricane detailing with various ties,metal strapping and foundation hold downs,none of which is via insurance.
So,in other words,funds are tight.Money spent in one area,subtracts from money spent in another.
Both places need upgraded insulation.The 1950’s style 2″ thick mystery batts aint cutting it.We pulled down ceilings(not covered in the claim),because I knew the insulation would be woefully inadequate.I want to provide some longer term energy savings.Addressing that with the heating and mechanical system will help greatly,I’m sure,but I am looking to maximize the insulation,as well,on a very small budget.
I am looking biggest bang for the buck suggestions,out of necessity.
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I will also add that we are in climate zone 4,with approx.5400 heating degree days.
Dennis,
Would you be able to give a few more details about how the houses were damaged? Are you trying to build a more resilient structure to reduce the risk of this type of damage happening again? I'm only asking because that would affect your choice of insulation and you sound like you are trying to do things right.
I think the single cheapest, most effective thing to do is air sealing then even batt insulation will be more effective. The pros will weigh in as well, but I think they will want to know a little more about the damage.
Dennis,
Are you looking to insulate above-grade walls? Below-grade walls? Floors? The attic? All of the above?
How much room do you have between the framing members?
Does your area of the country have experienced cellulose contractors who provide competitive bids equal to or lower than the cost of fiberglass batts?
That's a good point.Lucy.
Unfortunately,some consideration has to be made regarding materials used,where and how in the event they have to be removed or replaced with future flooding.In a flood it is very important to remove porous and wet material as quickly as possible to permit drying and to prevent rapid mold growth.For example,removing drywall and fiberglass batts versus removing plaster and blown in cellulose.There are few worse jobs that I can imagine that are worse than having to remove blown in insulation and clean it up.
We also found that crawl spaces were poorly insulated in the area.Most were only partially insulated with fiberglass batts.However,the fiberglass was probably the ideal choice as far a material for convenience of removal (I didn't say fun).A good crawl space insulation detail using easily removed or non porous material would be something to be considered.
Also,understand the weather history of the area.Sandy caused flooding never before seen.Residents of 80 years have not experienced anything close to this.However,the year before,Tropical Storm Irene caused some minor crawl space flooding, a couple of inches,even that was seen as 50 year event.This year was 4 feet above that.So people are wondering if climate change is going to make this more common.Even in the months after Sandy,tidal street flooding in some areas has become common and not related to storms.
Martin,pretty much all of the areas you mention.Crawl space and wall insulation because of damage,attic and ceiling because of interest in upgrading and because drywall was removed to expose wiring that will be changed out.Please see my response to Lucy above,it is a major consideration.Crawl space insulation is an interesting subject.I know of many people who have rebuilt and not insulated them yet,there is a lot of debate on the best way to do it under these circumstances.
And Martin,I wouldn't be disappointed if I never saw any more blown in insulation in my lifetime.
Martin,the homes are typical 1950s construction for this area.2x4 studs,2x8 floor joists,2x8 rafters.It has a crawl space with approx. 30 inches below the bottom of the floor joists to a 3 inch concrete "rat slab".Crawl spaces are vented with a couple of 8x12 cast in place vents with a poured or concrete block foundation wall.
The subfloors are going to be completely removed from both houses to expose the joists.Insurance covered this because of potential mold damage from the flooding.I intend to do all of the plumbing/heating/mechanical/wiring while the floor is open.Most folks rushed to get new plywood on and not take advantage of that.Having it open leads to many crawl space insulation insulation options ,possibly foam board or spray foam.However,if there were to be any future crawl space flooding,I don't know the durability of spray foam.
Dennis,
There is no simple answer to your question. This is a judgment call. My guess is that this house will be flooded again within the next two decades; but that is a guess. If you anticipate that the house will soon be flooded again, it probably doesn't make much sense to invest in durable materials.
I would insulate the floor with one or two layers of foil-faced polyisocyanurate, installed as a continuous layer across the underside of the floor joists. Pay attention to air sealing when installing the polyiso.
Upstairs, if your budget is tight, use almost any insulation product you want. My guess is that you will choose fiberglass batts. If that is what you choose, pay attention to air sealing when you install them -- and try to follow the manufacturer's installation instructions. (That means that you shouldn't have compression or voids.)
Martin,thank you for that.Yes,under these conditions,the planning really turns into a big brain twister.And while I generally don't have a whole lot of sympathy for those who choose to live right on the coast or along side a river,where you know that is just a matter of time,most of the folks I am dealing with are quite a distance back from the coast,in average working class homes,in 60 years plus old neighborhoods,that never dreamed of this. So,I am willing to put a bit more thought into all of this than many others that are out there.
Martin,in addition to being in the constructions trade,I am also a certified mold technician.Never put that training into practice as I have recently.So,I have been in dozens of crawl spaces since the storm.I ran into only one crawl that was insulated in that way.Actually it was R 30 fiberglass sandwiched between the subfloor and 2 layers of 3/4" blue XPS.A fairly nice installation,and a method that I have always thought was a great way to go,but was never offered enough to install in my own work.(and not an easy retrofit).As you can imagine,that was not an easy removal,without going into the gory details.
Martin,I am considering going with an unvented crawlspace (just put concrete back into the vent cavity,and putting the foam on the inside of the foundation walls.As I described above,the subfloor will be removed soon and everything accessible.Being that concrete is not a mold food source,nor is foam,it would not need to be removed if it got wet.Surprisingly,none of the crawl spaces I have been in this winter,for the most part,have been damp.It seems as if these crawl spaces are more dependent on the outside air for their humidity,than in groundwater or outside forces.Humidity is quite low here in the winter months,but quite high in the spring and summer.
Dennis, you should look into some of the energy programs offered by Nj and supported by nj natural gas (probably your gas utiltity I am guessing). If you want to engage an insulation company that is in the program, you can get some pretty good rebates on the work (50% of 8000 for example) - with the remainder spread over 10 years interest free and put on the utility bill monthly. I am looking into this myself for an air/seal and reinsulation retrofit of my house. If you want I can share the details with you, just email me [email protected]. also see: http://www.njng.com/save-energy-money/residentialPrograms.asp
P.S. I was just browsing the NJNG link after I wrote this, and it looks like there are some added incentives and rebates for Sandy damaged homes. You should check it out.
Thank you for your input NJ.
It seems that there are many more programs available for the replacement of heating equipment,especially natural gas.Many of the programs are targeted to low income households.I believe there may be some public programs for free energy analysis and upgrade planning and consulting.However,many of these programs have a fine print disclaimer concerning items already covered by insurance or FEMA. And,as you can imagine,everyone has just about had it with more forms,phone calls,messages and meetings.
I am in New York.Many folks are just now receiving some money,or getting a first offer from flood insurance.Most settlements so far are inadequate,and will require much back and forth negotiation.
np dennis - you should contact "the mark group", insulation company. I am working with them, and I have a 15k commitment from NJ natural for air sealing, insulation and appliance replacement, of which they will pay for 5k and I pay back the remainder over 10 years. this is not a low-income household type of program.
if you contact an insulation company that is plugged in, the process is not complex for the homeowner. If you want, I can give you my rep's contact info - email me. could save some money for your homeowners.
FEMA lists closed cell foam products as the only class 5 (most acceptable) insulation materials to be used in flood prone areas. While rigid foam products such as XPS will suffice, air sealing is required. We have installed closed cell spray foam in numerous crawlspaces along the cost, with excellent results. There are details to consider in relation to piping, drying potential to one side, and pressure buildup under the home in extreme circumstances, but I can't imagine a better choice. Most quality SPF contractors are quite familiar with the needs you've discussed, can provide "ballpark" costs per SF by phone or email, and work with the NJ Home Performance with Energy Star Program. Thanks, Steve, FOAMpeople Spray Foam Insulation (in NJ)