Competitors to Zender
MCMoreno
| Posted in General Questions on
We are building a passive house in Maple Ridge BC Canada. We were given a quote when we started the process and in the last 6 months the installer has increased the price by more than $20,000 citing Zender increases.
I want to know if anyone else is experiencing these increases? And is there a competitor that you have had success with? Our house is 3200 square feet with 12” thick walls and passive house windows and doors.
Any suggestions for alternatives?
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Here is a running list I keep for my eventual home build but I have no experience with any of them:
- Zehnder can deliver up to 353 CFM
- CERV2 unit can deliver up to 300 CFM
- RenewAire EV series can get up to 280 CFM
- Broan HE can get up to 240 CFM
- UltimateAir 200DX goes up to 200 CFM
- Minotair PentaCare V12 goes up to 180 CFM
- LifeBreath goes up to 120 CFM
- Panasonic goes up to 100 CFM
- Aldes VZ-IAQ-ERV goes up to 183 CFM but it is not an ECM motor
Self-balancing (as opposed to adjustable dampers that will get out of spec over time) and ECM motors seem to be two of the major features I would want in an ERV. You can keep the Zehnder cost down by just buying the unit from them, and skipping on their ductwork and registers. They comfotube stuff used to not even be UL listed, not sure if they have fixed that by now.
Thank you that is a detailed list. Interesting that Brinks is not on there.
475 supply sells Brink ERVs which seem comparable to Zehnder. They have similar custom ducting available as an option. I'm personally going with the Broan AI series.
Yes I found the information on the 475 supply list and they responded in less than 24 hours. Far better than any of the other suppliers.
By "more than $20,000", I am assuming your total system was in the $35,000+ range?
Regardless, that is insane. The system is good but the up-charge is insane. I paid $20k to have a 22-gauge metal roof, meta soffit and metal fascia installed on my house (2,320 sqft of roof area). No way should an ERV/HRV system cost more than a metal roof install. I guarantee the owners of that company are making bank.
There are good systems for a lot less out there. I'm sure others will chime in.
Yup - actually closer to $40k and then a $20k increase. Completely predatory in my opinion.
i currently have a brink installed in my new build in progress. i've been happy so far. installers had never done a zhender, they handled it well (i think). install is essentially done.
price was around 8k out the door for materials from 475, shipped to oregon to evade sales tax. 2400ish sq ft house.
Brink has a pre-heater to avoid defrost issues and increase comfort. It has 90% efficiency. So seems a lot like Zender at half the price.
Brink is still twice as much as Broan AI (I think Venmar in Canada). It's hard to find proper math for this, but I don't think you can make back the extra cost from the higher efficiency Brink unless you are in colder parts of Canada or if it lasts for decades.
With that being said, Brink supports using a CO2 sensor! Apparently they are developing features to deliver air to where in the house the CO2 says it is needed but that may not be available yet.
brink at twice the price as broan is a deal. i have three bathrooms, 3 bedrooms, and living space which brink is ventilating. compare that to what 1 broan could cover.
Broan AI series has a 200 CFM model now. Brink looks like 236 CFM
Thanks I'll see if I can find a Broan Dealer near us in BC.
im not talking about cfm, rather the # of square footage/rooms covered with supply of fresh air and removal of stale air.
plus, you do a broan at the half the cost into one of your bathrooms. what are you doing with your other bathrooms? labor costs becomes comparable. plus now you have more penetrations than a brink or zhender.
in the end i think the cost of brink isn't much higher than all-in costs with a broan and what you're getting in return is much more.
I am just talking about the units themselves, not the complete installation scenario. For the complete installation you can install them the same way. You can hook them up to a forced air return or send the air to each room. Zender and Brink sell their own tubing to send air to each room. But you can do that with any ERV.
The only difference then is in the intelligent controls. I am not that familiar with Zender & Brink- I saw Brink is developing the ability to do selective ventilation- but it wasn't ready yet- that is something that would be different. Zender & Brink I think have apps? With Broan AI there is no app. Instead you get only a control panel mounted on your wall (separate from the unit).
I agree that the install cost is more than the unit. So after settling on a company I think you might as well spend more and get more CFM- you end up with lower power usage during normal usage and better boost. But that's when the difference is only hundreds of dollars, not thousands.
Thanks I will try to find the Venmar dealer near us.
The last time I looked, I think both the Zhender and Brink systems had plastic 3 inch distribution tubes available. I believe both of those tubes are not UL listed though, anyone know if they are now?
Has anyone had any luck with local inspectors allowing the non-UL tubes to be installed? If so, on what basis do they allow them?
brink is now UL listed. i can't speak to zhender. but i'd be surprised if they weren't by now as well.
Do you think the 3 inch plastic tubes From Brink are UL listed, or just the ERV itself?
good question. i would email Gabrielle, she's the point person for brink at 475. [email protected]
I did checkin with 475, good call crawford. The plastic tubes are still not UL listed. They, like Zehnder are also selling flex 3" non rigid tubes which are UL listed. But, I don't think these will be as easy for a self install in a tricky retrofit situation. I would like to be able to use the semi-rigid tubes.
The plastic tubes will never be UL listed because the material they're made of cannot pass the UL requirement for ductwork - I forget the specific requirement but it's smoke/flame spread or generation.
The UL rated replacement flex duct is made out of fiberglass coated with a fire-retardant material. They don't say what it is, but there is some evidence that it's a vinyl or PVC. To me, that doesn't seem like a good solution for a fresh air supply duct. I'm looking at old fashioned galvanized steel duct for my install.
https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/question/flexible-duct-for-mechanical-ventilation-contains-vinyl
Zehnder sells the URL fire rated duct (fiberglass and metal wire) as well as the plastic pipe.
https://www.hvacsystems.ca/ sells the PHI certified Casa units made by swegon.
https://database.passivehouse.com/en/components/list/ventilation_small?q=casa
If you are not certifying the building then you can use any ERV, just model the performance difference and account for the testing difference.
If you are then your Certified Passive House Designer should have experience with various types of ERV's.
https://smallplanetsupply.ca/ sells a number of brands of ERVs.
There are lots of excellent high performance buildings and designers in BC.
Get a second quote.
I looked at a few options, but ultimately settled on integrating the Build Equinox CERV2. The unit itself is around $7k, but it's built into your main HVAC ducting so it doesn't need another ducting system so it may be cheaper, and I like the features and function of it compared to a normal ERV. The guys there are great to work with.
It looks like it is rated to 200 CFM @ 0.4 iwc. I guess if you have a low enough TESP duct system you can use the same ducts for both your main air handler and CERV2. Just to be clear, you do not have the CERV2 interlocked with your air handler, correct?