Cellulose install issues?
So I could only find one company to even give me a price on insulating my addition. After the install, there were some issues in my opinion.
#1. Based on my research they did not blow dense enough. Most of the insulation when I pressed on it was soft(not like the firm mattress feel I was looking for). They didn’t roll it flat, and left me to do it.
#2. The insulation got behind the netting and between the studs creating ridges up to or over 1\4” tall in many places
#3. They blew cellulose into all the vent baffles and much of it landed on top of the vented soffit which is LP smart soffit that is finished and painted.
#4. The addition is on piers and open underneath. I had them blow cellulose in between the i joists and several bays when I push up on it it feels like there is a void between the top of insulation and bottom of subfloor.
So I guess I’m looking for some guidance. Are these actual issues or am I being crazy. I told them about the issues and they came back out and basically said there is nothing more they can do. Do I press on with construction or try to fight this? Is there any way for me to verify the density? Thanks. Zone 4, central md.
I have pics but it won’t let me upload, perhaps too large.
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It sounds like your installer was sloppy at best and at worst may have left you with insulation that will not perform as intended. I don't know what the best course of action is (keep bugging the contractor, pay another contractor to fix the work, or hire a lawyer), but I'd be most concerned about the voids and lack of density in the installation. While the ridges and over-spray into your soffits is an annoyance that needs to be cleaned up, it is the other two details that will hinder performance of the insulation. I'm hoping someone comes along with an idea for you on how to measure the density of your install. I'm not sure that it will be helpful at this point, but here is an article from FHB on how an install should be done:
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/11/10/dense-pack-cellulose-insulation-done-right
rsoup, it seems like a very substandard installation to me. It sounds like they left you stuck. I did my own cellulose install on my home and it turned out much better than yours. I can only tell you what I would do in your situation but I think you should trust what seems to me to be your pretty good instincts.
Dense pack cellulose is a very green and not really hard job if you plan ahead and think it out. In your situation I would document photographically everything they did, including their not rolling it out. That is just unacceptable for them to not do it because that is the physically most demanding part of the job. Instead of taking it to a lawyer I would try to get reimbursed through small claims court. That way if you lose, which is always possible even if you don't deserve to lose, you won't be out any money to a lawyer.
I would hate to see you just give up on dense packing because there is only one installer in your area. That might mean doing it yourself like I did. Even the big box stores have cellulose machines for rent that are capable of doing the job at 3.5 lbs/ft which is sufficient for 2x6 framing (2x4 requires less). You just have to make sure the gate valve is adjusted so that you have a high ratio of air to cellulose because otherwise the machine will bog down before you get enough cellulose density. Some machine meant only for attic blows don't even have gate valve and are unsuitable for dense pack. Each bay should end up bellied way out behind the netting.
The disadvantage of big box store machines are that they are generally slow because you have to dial the cellulose to air ratio way back for them not to bog down. The advantage of doing it yourself is that most of the cellulose is already there, though in insufficient quantity. Just put up new netting and make sure it is stapled securely to the 2x's so that it doesn't pop out under pressure. like theirs probably did. It's easy to have too much pressure coming from the compressor going to the stapler and have the stapler blow right through the netting. Ask me how I know!
One more thing. If the job was done right originally you should be able to press down on the cellulose at the top of each bay and not have it compress. If you can do that and get 3" or more of open space at the top then it's seriously deficient density. Also you can try that not only for your own information but you can also take photos to document it for court if it turns out to be deficient.
R.Soup,
If you end up fixing the problems yourself, you will probably find this article useful: "How to Install Cellulose Insulation."
When I rolled it it basically only took two swipes to flatten it out so that sounds like an indicator of lack of density. If I reach my hand in the hole in the netting, the cellulose will just fall out. The installers stapled every 2-3” down the center face of the studs which obviously caused the aforementioned issues.
Martin, I had read that article several times prior to the install which is how I quickly realized it was done wrong.
So if I rent a machine, can I theoretically pull off the netting(not really netting, looks more like a plastic napkin) staple up some insulweb and blow into the insulation that is already in place or does it need to be removed? This is assuming it stays in the wall after removing the netting?
I would try pulling down the existing netting and just seeing if the cellulose stays in. If it does - good. Then just put up new insulweb and add to the existing celluloset with the machine.
Ok so I took a leap and decided to do a density test. I removed 1/2 cubic foot in two locations. One below a window in a small bay where I knew it was probably dense enough and one on a wall at the top where it felt soft. The test below the widow resulted in 2lbs and the wall test came in at 1.362 lbs. Are there any official documents stating the 3.5 pcf that I can show the company to help fight my case?
I don't know what you mean by "official documents," but here are links to two references that explain why you need a minimum density of 3.5 lbs. per cubic foot for an adequate installation of dense-packed cellulose:
"Dense-Pack Cellulose Coverage Chart"
"Dense-Pack Cellulose Insulation Done Right"
As a diy'er I don't think my name carries much weight. I would use Mr. Hulstrunck as a reference. That's probably misspelled. Other people here might be able to help you with a reference. I'm pretty sure the 3.5 lbs/ cubic ft is right though.
Thanks Eric for all of your guidance and input and everyone who replied. Much appreciated.
Ok one last question I hope someone can answer with confidence. I stared pulling down the netting and I keep getting this bad feeling that if I leave the cellulose in, being that’s it’s already between 2-3 pcf and rolled, I’m going to have trouble getting anymore to blow in with the machine I have available to rent(force 1 is biggest I could find). I’m going to glue the netting to the studs and am not doing this again. Am I better of removing cellulose and starting over or will the force 1 be able to add more density? Thanks
Never mind, I’m removing all the cellulose and putting in rock wool which was my original plan. Thank