Cardinal 366 windows next to clear glass
BonnieMatheney
| Posted in General Questions on
Our high rise is considering replacing our existing clear windows with Cardinal 366 glass. However, we have balconies with clear glass that are in between the windows. Won’t this look odd especially considering many of us have a panoramic view of the lake and city here in Chicago that will now consist of a mix of 366 glass and clear glass?
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Replies
Balcony glass cannot be replaced?
I have 4 different kinds of glass, from clear uncoated to 2 coating triple pane.
You can see it, doesn't keep me up at night.
If you replaced on of something you expect to be the same, I think you will see it. If you replace a door, you don't notice the difference.
The balcony glass won’t be replaced for 20 years so we will see the difference for a long time.
What I was trying to get at is that while you can see it, you will not notice it. IME different glass types are much more noticeable from the outside. Part of that is no doubt when looking from the outside, one is looking 'at' the window, while when looking from the inside, one is looking 'through' the window. IF you have a row of 4 identical windows and replace one with a very different glass, you brain will notice it. If one of them is a door, since it is already 'different' your brain will probably ignore it.
Here is what the view looks like. So you're saying that if all of the windows are 366 glass and the balcony door (which is part of this panoramic view) remains clear that we aren't going to notice? And the other issue is we want to keep our natural light not diminish it. I've also included a pic that shows the difference between clear and 366. I'm much more concerned how this will look from the inside.
Is the clear glass part of a railing for the balconies, or is it a different set of windows? If it’s a railing, I doubt you’ll notice it, because it would be in front of the 366 in the windows.
If it’s a different set of windows, you will certainly notice it, but it might not be a problem. Assuming the balconies are regularly placed on the side of the building, from the outside, the alternating pattern created by the two different types of glass will likely look like an architectural feature of the building and not be a problem. From inside though, the 366 glass will appear darker and with a slight color tint compared to the clear glass.
Bill
No it's not part of a railing. Here is a pic of the view. The balcony door is part of the panoramic view. We are more concerned about the view from the inside. I also found a pic that shows how dark 366 glass is compared to clear. So I believe this will definitely look weird when considering the panoramic views we have that include the balcony door.
The walls bordering the doors will make the difference in the glass types less noticeable, but you’ll probably still see the difference as the doors being brighter, and the 366 glass looking slightly tinted.
I think your pictures are overly severe though. 366 is darker looking, due to it passing less visible light, but your pics look like a tinted window film or even a shade. 366 is NOT that bad. I suggest going to a store that has some glass examples out on the show floor where you can look at some actual low-E glass and see for yourself.
Personally, I like the 180 coating, which is least severe, but also doesn’t perform quite as well as the higher numbered coatings. I also like triple pane windows though, which cuts down on visual light transmission due to a third pane of glass. The biggest difference I see between 340/366 coatings on double pane assemblies and triple pane assemblies with 180 is that the higher numbered coatings have a bit of a gray/green tint to them. You probably wouldn’t notice that tint though unless you had a different type of glass nearby to compare to.
The higher numbered coatings are geared towards reduced solar heat gain, which IS an issue in northern latitudes IF you have a LOT of sun exposure. Commercial buildings tend to have more total heat rise due to solar gain compared with most residential structures due to the higher ratio of glazing to walls compared to what you’d have on a typical house. Commercial buildings tend to run their cooling systems much later in the year to deal with this, and it’s a big cost to operate those systems.
Bill
Bonnie,
It's difficult to tell without photos of the building, but I agree with Bill - there is a good chance it will be a feature on the elevations.
see pics in other replies. We are more concerned about the difference from the inside
These model numbers vs. window OEM product names drive me bonkers and I can never remember, but I have Cardinal 366 (Andersen "SmartSun") facing west and Cardinal 272 (Andersen "Low-E") facing north in the same room and I don't perceive a difference, visually, but I do believe these windows have different visual transmittance values because of the coatings.
What is the goal of switching to Cardinal 366? I only have it on my west windows to minimize summer solar gain.
That's our point. We are in Chicago and don't believe we need to have Cardinal 366. The vendor was pushing 366 for energy efficiency. Yet during half the year our sun is rising at 7:20 and setting at 4:30, so not sure why we are worrying that much about the sun. So we want to maximize natural light and highlight our amazing views (pic in other reply).
I don't know where you got your photos but Cardinal Glass' websites shows that 366 glass has a visible transmittance of 65%. (Scroll down near the bottom: https://www.cardinalcorp.com/products/coated-glass/loe-366/) As they note, even "clear" glass doesn't have 100% transmittance.
I design homes and spec a VT of no less than 40%, but that includes the window frame so the glass itself is in the same range of yours. I am sensitive to differences like the ones you're concerned with but I do not think you'll have a problem.
With a high-rise in Chicago, I bet the building owners' concerns are about the cost of air conditioning in the summer, which can be astronomical in a building like yours, and is very costly in both dollars and carbon emissions. By slightly reducing the visible transmittance, you will be helping to save the view you enjoy.
Since there are walls between the windows and the doors, you won't notice. I mean now that you are looking for it, you will but it is visually fine. I'm assuming those balcony doors have screens on them which has similar effect and people are fine with it.
Where you would be visually bothersome is if one of the transoms was replaced but the window bellow stayed the same.
Generally the coating mismatch is a visual issue on the outside of all glass buildings as the windows are right next to each other.
Curious where the picture with the LowE VT comparisons came from, but I agree with Michael Maines that the illustrations shown exaggerate the light blocking effects of the coatings supposedly claimed.
I also agree that those illustrations look a lot more like tinted glass than LoE coated based on color and general appearance. And, since the correct names for the coatings claimed should be LoE-272, LoE-366, etc., and not LowE-366... so on, whoever did the comparisons was probably not associated with Cardinal, the coating manufacturer.
Below are pictures of actual coated glass taken against a white background for color and general appearance comparison. All pictures are of two lites of glass, one clear one coated.
The first picture is clear glass over clear glass
second is LoE-180
third is LoE-272
fourth is LoE-366
The smaller sheet of paper in the first picture (clear over clear) was on top of the glass to provide for a direct comparison to the paper under the glass.
The last picture includes a sheet of gray tinted glass (top), LoE-272 (lower left), LoE-366 (lower right), and clear glass (everything else) against a bright white background (snow storm), for comparison.
Keeping in mind that the "everything else" clear is two layers of uncoated glass, while the gray tint adds one additional layer and the two coated samples are 4 total glass layers (three clear, one coated) that will appear somewhat darker than they would be when compared with just the dual pane and coating, and the exterior view is exceptionally white...
This is great info. It appears though that my concern is genuine that my view will be darkened with a green hue. And based on the pic (in above replies) of my panoramic view being lake and sky it will stand out given there is clear glass balcony sandwiched between 366 glass.