Risk of Mold in Basement with Dimple Mat and Spray Foam
This question has probably been asked a bunch on here, but I’m coming up short with my searches. Here’s the summary, and see attached drawing: Our partially submerged, very old basement in Chicago (zone 5) will be furred out with studs and drywall, have new windows installed, and will be insulated with closed cell spray foam to approximately R-20. The basement will remain unfinished; we’re just trying to clean it up and regulate temperature. We installed an interior perimeter drain tile and sump, and the system works great. The foundation has a few vertical cracks typical of a house of this age, some of which are known to let a trickle of water in occasionally during huge storms. Micro seepage cracks are present in some areas. We plan to epoxy fill all the main cracks and install a dimple mat at the below-grade walls prior to insulating. My question is this: Is there any concern about mold growth behind the dimple mat after everything is in place? It seems like the right thing to do, rather than rely on the foam to seal micro cracks or pores.
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Hydrostatic pressure within the wall would likely cause the spray foam to seperate from the wall over time. Even waterproofing coatings will eventually fail. My concern with the dimplemat is that the spray foam would be adhered to the dimplemat instead of to the wall itself, so what would be supporting the weight of the foam/mat assembly? It may be best to only put the dimple mat in relatively narrow vertical strips in the immediate area of the leaking cracks so that the foam is adhered to the wall in other areas.
What type of foundation wall do you have? If it’s a hollow block wall, you may be able to “drain” the wall with weep holes drilled into the hollow cavities of the bottom course of blocks. This would likely eliminate the need for the dimple mat. If you have a poured foundation, then I think dimple mat is probably your only option if you can’t install exterior drainage.
Bill
Hydrostatic pressure is the strongest force known to man. Consider not filling the cracks and instead let the seepage flow behind the dimple mat into your perimeter drains. I agree with the concerns articulated by Zephyr7.
Hi RH (be great to have a name for the GBA Q&A community to use) -
Can you grow mold behind the dimple mat? Mold needs three things: the right temperature, food, oxygen, and water. Very likely that at some point in time, all three of these could support mold growth. Question is: if it is sealed off from your interior space, and the materials on the other side can not be degraded by mold growth, do you care?
Mold growth will be incidental and spotty at best, if at all.
Great resource here for mold: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/common-sense-mold
Great resource here for waterproofing basements: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/installing-basement-waterproofing-from-the-negative-side
Peter
To add to Peter’s comments about mold, if mold is a concern, there are basement wall waterproofing paints with mold inhibitors in them. I don’t usually look for that type specifically, but I think zinsser makes one (and I’m sure there are others too). You could apply that mold-resistant coating to the wall prior to putting up the dimple mat to lessen the chance of mold growing in the newly created hidden void between the dimplemat and the wall.
Bill
Lee,
With all due respect, hydrostatic pressure is not the strongest force known to man. It is a relatively small and predictable pressure. Water standing against a foundation wall applies about 1 psi for every 2' of standing water. That's equivalent to about 144 psf, so much greater than typical floor or roof loading, but still small compared to the water pressure inside plumbing at 60-100 psi, or hydraulic equipment pressures at 3000 psi or more.
What makes it so difficult to deal with is that it can be there for the very long term, and that water slowly dissolves many of our masonry building materials, making its own pathways into our basements.
Epoxy sealing the cracks might help reduce the flow some, or it might not. Worst case, it is a waste of time/money, but it won't hurt anything. The dimple mat is a good way to drain away the water that manages to get inside. Make sure it is tucked into the perimeter drain and that the spray foam covers this joint and the top of the dimple mat to prevent moisture from escaping at these openings.
RH,
You mention that you will not be finishing the basement, but that it will have studs and drywall. This raises potential fire code issues with exposed foam. I know Chicago has its own building codes, but I expect that they are similar to the national codes (or tougher) for exposed foam insulation. In short, the insulation cannot be exposed to the interior of the house. It should be covered with drywall or another material with similar fire-retardant capabilities. The studs and drywall will be fine, but you should also make sure that the top and bottom of the wall cavities are closed and that the foam is not exposed in storage areas or other spaces.
Hey everyone, thank you all for the responses. I'm still working with some waterproofers and spray foam contractors to get their opinions, but I think we're on the right track. I've been told that the dimple mat is a belt-and-suspenders type approach, but for a few hundred dollars in material it seems like a worthwhile thing, as long as it is sealed in there to lessen the chance for mold growth. And yes, it would need to fastened securely to the wall in order to provide a sturdy surface for the spray foam. The furred and insulated walls will be covered with drywall to provide the required ignition barrier. We'll probably epoxy seal the primary cracks, but skip the lesser ones.
So the StPaul (MN) building inspectors for my neighborhood with 100+yo homes are requiring plastic dimple wrap (I used DMX) to be installed on the inside of cement block basement walls with normal hairline cracks that are allowing water to leak in. When I finished my basement I installed drain tile & drilled weep holes in the cement block cavities of the bottom row of blocks - right above the cement footings. Then I rolled the plastic dimple wrap out so it sat on top of drainage rock covering the drain tile pipe & extended up the exterior walls to outside grade. You seal the ends with the rubber flashings provided with dimple wrap, a good elastomerjc caulk & TapCon anchors. Do the same around window & door openings. On the top edge you put caulk under flat edge of dimple wrap & then fasten to walls with the flat washers provided that fit inside the dimples & TapCons. Use one every 12-18”. This will support the weight of the dimple wrap alone & once it’s sprayed with 2-3” of closed cell spray foam. Fill the tops of the drain tile trenches with concrete. Let it cure a week of two & then frame in your vertical 2x4 walls. Run your wires & then have a spray foam company spray 2-3” of closed cell foam between vertical studs & cover the dimple wrap completely. The combination of the TapCon anchors & the spray foam expanding under & between the studs will lock the dimple wrap in tight & you won’t ever need to worry about it coming down. And if you need to install a radon detection system in your sump pump basin like I did the constant air pressure/flow will do a great job of keeping mold from growing. Cover the studs with drywall & your old home basement will be as tight & dry as a new home! Did mine 3 years ago & our basement is draft free, warm & dry! Spraying closed cell spray foam over the sloped cement “fill” in the rim joist cavities made a huge difference too. I removed the cement in the rim joist cavities on one exterior wall, but my spray foam guy told me not to waste my time on the other 3 as once you spray a few inches of closed cell spray foam over it the cold/heat transfer problems that haunt old homes up here in MN are greatly reduced & often eliminated! If worked great!
StPJOT
I'm in Saint Pul. Who did you use for the spray foam work?
We did not follow through with the spray foam. The basement walls are currently exposed at the top, and dimple mat was laboriously installed at the bottom. We also did the new windows and installed a portable dehumidifier down there. Overall, that much has been noticeably successful, though the basement does still get cold in the peak of winter. Still better than previous. It needs more air sealing all over the place.
StPJOT
I'm in Saint Pul. Who did you use for the spray foam work?
I appreciate that this is an old thread, but I did recently come across this video from a ccSPF installer/educator in Alberta might be of interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0lOrnJxr0Q
@0:45 he talks about the need to use an "automotive grade ammonia speed etching primer" paint on the dimple membrane ahead of apply the ccSPF to assure adhesion.
I have no experience with this approach but have put thought to using it myself on a retrofit project of the 1910 field stone foundation at my rental property in Ottawa. But that's a whole other can of worms and I won't thread jack your post with those.
Is there a way to prevent the water from even entering? Much easier to deal with water before it enters.
Excavate exterior perimeter. Place perforated drain tile at bottom. Apply waterproof compound & dimple mat outside foundation. We want to do this at our home but no contractor is willing. They say “around here homeowners let the water enter then pump it out with motorized sump” (which is what we have been doing for several years now, with unacceptable results). If you find a contractor willing to waterproof the Victorian era foundation from the outside, please post about him or her here so we can get in touch. Thanks
thegiz,
As amonymoususer says, it's very doable but as a retrofit it means huge disruption to the surrounding yard and walkways, the potential to hit services, and cause damage to the foundation. While an imperfect solution, it's often much easier to work on the interior where the walls are already exposed.
If you mostly see water after it rains, don't underestimate how much gutters can help. I would put in gutters as a first step, and direct the water a good distance out from the foundation (putting in underground drain pipes if needed to get the water far away). Sometimes that is all you need to do, which can avoid the need for major excavation an grading work. In my own home, as long as I keep the gutters in good shape, I have no problems with water coming in. If the gutters get clogged or disconnected though, a heavy rain will make some water seep into the basement.
Bill
Just an idea, I have a gravel pit by my foundation but was thinking about this at one point because I’m tired of maintaining it. Could you add concrete around the perimeter without too much disruption. I’m assuming you wouldn’t have to dig as deep to add concrete on top. https://youtu.be/yJ4IeLiQ8es