Automatic Drywall Finishing Tools
My drywall finishing experience has all been small areas done with basic hand tools, but I’m now looking at doing my entire 2nd floor — I attempted to get quotes from professional drywallers, and the one who actually returned my call gave me a quote that told me they didn’t really want to deal with my project after coming to look at it. Admittedly, there is a fair bit of complexity — it’s the upstairs of a 1.5 story house, so there’s small rooms, sloped ceilings, dormers, dropped beams, and lots of intersections of all three. I’ve got a couple strong friends who are eager to help, and with the quote I got I could buy a LOT of tools, food, and beverages, so let’s go!
Anyway, I ran across the world of “automatic” drywall tools — automated tapers, flat boxes, corner boxes, etc., and I’ve been watching videos of people making it look fast and easy. Thing is, I’m not sure how worthwhile some of the tools are in my situation, where there’s more angles and corners and intersections than there is flat area. This project will be something like 150 sheets, probably all just 4×8.
Has anyone used these kinds of automatic drywall tools? Would they save a lot of time in situations that don’t have large flat expanses, or do they mostly shine in spaces with lots of large flat areas? Which tools do you find to be the most useful?
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People have strong opinions, but as a non trades person, normal paper tape never works perfectly for me. Bubbles, pulls, blah blah blah. I haven't had a screw up on any of the Strait Flex tape I've used.
In defense of cost, 100% perfect vs what I keep doing wrong as a non trades person? I take the perfect every time.
If you're looking to spend money, StraitFlex Perfect 90 gets my vote.
I've done quite a bit of taping and finishing (for a former carpenter/current DIYer maintaining several properties, anyway). While I always look longingly at the automated tools, for a chopped-up space like yours I doubt the cost and learning curve would be worth it.
I use joint compound with a hawk, not a trough. For the first coat or two I use hot mud, and while it takes me longer than a pro, the results are just as good or better since the paper tape virtually always sticks well on the first try, and you can recoat more quickly than using a hopper/banjo/flat box with bucket mud.
I dont know if it’s worth it to you or not but I never pass up an opportunity to say I’m saving money by buying a tool….
https://www.level5tools.com/drywall-taping-tool-set/#&gid=1&pid=1
Yeah, I love excuses to acquire new tools and skills, but the automated drywall stuff is expensive enough that I'm not going to buy it unless I'm pretty sure it's actually worthwhile!
Well then ya, almost definitely not worth it…..
I would estimate a job like that is about $90 per sheet, or $13.5k for the job. Probably about a third materials, a third for hanging and a third for finishing.
I would try to find someone to do it. I hate drywall and avoid it whenever I can. I've never met a taper who looked like he needed to go to the gym, nor have I met one who projected an air of being a millionaire who was slumming it.
I've noticed that the pro tapers don't seem to use a lot of the fancy tools. They also seem to eschew anything fancier than a stepladder with a plank for getting up into work areas. Although I hate drywall, I have to do it occasionally and here are a few things I own that I would recommend:
An electric mixer: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ESRQEYG . Just dump a bag of compound in a five gallon bucket, add water and mix.
A drywall lift: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M2Z7NRY
I also own scaffolding. I would recommend renting it for the job. When you're moving big heavy sheets around you want to be on a steady footing. It does make the job take longer than doing acrobatics off a stepladder but your safety is worth it.
I wonder if it's a regional difference; I can't recall ever seeing a taper use anything but stilts to reach high areas (that can be reached with stilts). On a couple of occasions I have seen them improvise with duct tape and upside-down mud buckets. The ones who do larger projects all use banjos for taping.
stilts are illegal in California -- maybe elsewhere.
falls off stilts can cause catastrophic injury.
I am so interested in the mechanism by which California makes stilts "illegal". Can you shed further light?
To take it down to a most basic question, is it "illegal" (and if so, how) for a sole proprietor/self-employed contractor to use stilts for drywall finishing in California?
(What about circus performers? Are they safe?)
They have their own state-level OSHA, Cal-OSHA. Cal-OSHA has the power to issue regulations.
I don't know about Cal-OSHA but OSHA-OSHA can cite a sole proprietor.
Apparently Massachusetts has banned stilts as well.
This is fascinating!
I wonder if I could start a line of very high-profile platform boots and skirt around this "law".
Guys in DC don't generally use stilts. It may be because DC has strict workplace safety enforcement, you rarely see a guy on a roof without a harness and pretty much everyone wears a hard hat and a reflective vest when working outdoors.
Platforms like Johnny linked to are popular, you often see them used in pairs with a plank. I prefer ones that are adjustable in height -- those ones are fixed -- because dialing in a comfortable working height is important. For a 10' ceiling I use adjustable sawhorses with a plank.
Thanks for suggesting (and linking!) specific things -- Have a reasonable mixer already, and definitely on board with the drywall lift!
Also thanks for validating my feelings on pricing -- the quote I got was $20k, for not even the entire thing.
One of my favorite "tools" on this job has been this little 2-step platform: https://www.wernerco.com/us/view/AP-25 -- perfect for working on things at ceiling height, and small and light enough to carry around everywhere -- at least when it doesn't turn into a flat surface full of tools. Might buy a second one for this job.
That quote kinda blows me away.
Drywall is one of the few trades where looking at Craigslist can sometimes be helpful. Vet people via business licenses, construction licenses, insurance paperwork, etc., but you've gotten sticker shocked into considering something I wouldn't (self performing 4,800 ft^2 of drywall install/finish).
Experienced hangers will install board faster than you can tell them they're installing it in the wrong place (for better or worse).
Unless you did this for a living in a previous life and also it's your only hobby, get some more quotes and Hire. It. Out.
It's not a gigantic project, but it's not so small so as to suffer small job inefficiencies. Install is a full day for the right sized crew. Finishing steps are a full day for the right sized crew, etc., etc.
The platform is a great thing to have. The orange box store usually has the Gorilla version on sale around Black Friday and those ones are nicer than the Werner version IMO. I bought one for $20 a few years back (I think they're $40 now), and then went right back and bought three more. Wish I had bought at least a couple more in retrospect as I've used them almost daily and wouldn't mind being able to leave a couple in each room I'm working in.
For taping wall to ceiling joint, I just line up the platforms along the wall so I don't have to step down and reposition them.
Having just finished the bulk of my drywall work on my 1500 sq. ft. home I have some pretty strong advice/opinions about this subject.
1. Use 12' sheets wherever possible. Fewer seams.
2. Rent or buy a drywall lift. You really don't need it for the walls, but it's a lifesaver on the ceilings.
3. Use 5/8 rock on the ceilings. It's damn heavy, but you'll have smoother ceilings.
4. I'll second the vote on Strait Flex tape. I used it on my last and biggest section and wished I had used it on all my inside corners.
5. Here's the biggie: Buy or rent a Festool Planex or similar. From a guy who did level 5 smooth wall in his entire home I can't say enough about this tool. No dust! You don't need to buy the Festool vacuum, just use your shop vac. It's fast, it makes the worst part of a drywall job almost enjoyable, and did I mention no dust?!?
6. Look into buying rock splicers or making your own. These eliminate having to deal with trying to make butt joints smooth as they turn butt joints into tapered joints.
7. Skimming blades (18-24") are handy, but you can do a lot with a good old 12" blade.
8. If you do smooth wall, use all purpose mud(not lite). You'll get a more durable wall.
Oh, in answer to your question, pass on the fancy automatic tools, except for the Planex.
Thanks for the thoughts! I saw that Festool sander in a video and it looked pretty nice, appreciate the word of endorsement.
Not may chances to make 12' sheets worthwhile -- ceilings are too broken up, rooms are pretty small, but I am going to recount for a mix of 12 and 8 vs. all 8 and compare pricing. Planning on using 5/8 everywhere actually (USG Ecosmart)
Did you use a banjo or anything for taping, or all hand tools?
jonny_h,
Money no object: A bazooka and Festool sander.
Real world: Banjo.
I just used hand tools.
That sounds like a great project for you and your pals. Reading about pro drywaller Myron Ferguson’s tools and techniques in his recent article, Finishing Drywall With Seamless Results, made me want to try it, if ever I have the chance. (The banjo looks fun.) He uses a combination of hand tools and an automatic taper. There are also companion videos on FHB.com, if you haven’t seen them.
Myron makes it look easy. It isn't.
youtube has a lot of good videos, but won't do much to develop the hand skills
Vancouver carpenter is my favorite you-tube taper these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKTKP3Exhuw&t=5s
i believe the bazooka tapers only do 90 degree corners. they may have an adjustable but would seem like it's hard to dial in.
if you are doing the second floor, then i'd get a boom truck delivery and make sure you can fit the sheets through a door or window without carting things up the stairs.
im a fan of drywall carts or at least panel-trolls so that you aren't lifting so much, especially with a drywall lift.
cordless drywall gun [not cordless drill or impact driver] and cordless cut out tool are really handy.
If you can get a bunch of friends helping, I recommend one of these for each guy:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002EVG0W
They're twelve bucks and they turn any drill into a passable drywall gun. Obviously not for driving screws all day long but much better than sharing one gun among a bunch of guys.
I'll also second my earlier Strait Flex suggestion :D "No Coat" is an alternative, but I've never used it.
Just remember, if Vancouver Carpenter doesn't use fancy tools... (he also didn't love but didn't hate Strait Flex and mostly pointed out the price)
If you do this yourself (you shouldn't), get a proper drywall supplier to deliver and place the sheets where they'll be used. A couple experienced guys with a boom and a dolly will load in a whole house of drywall in an hour or two. You'll spend a day or two shlepping those sheets around and bumping them into every corner. You'll then spend a week recovering.
150 sheets.
I think future tense correcting will require it to read, "I had friends"
:)
1500 sq ft floor plan? (A drywaller once taught me how to estimate quantity: floor plan x 3.185. When I've checked against full takeoffs, it's weirdly accurate. With sloped ceilings you probably have a somewhat larger floor plan.
Huh, not far off! About 1300sqft, across 2 floors and including an additional staircase to the basement. Rooms are fairly small with lots of ins and outs and, not having done a big drywall estimate before, I tried to err on the side of too much, so I may have over-estimated a bit.
I think he was toying with you with the oddly specific 3.185. If you divide square footage by 10 you get the number of sheets. 1500 square feet= 150 sheets.
If there are plasterers around, consider it
Here[Mass] there are tons, and they are competitive.
None of them hang board. There are board guys and plasterers
I think the board guys were here for a day and a half and the plasterers maybe 2.
The good Italian plasterers are artists.
Traditional plastering doesn't seem to be very common around here (NE Ohio) -- can't find plaster in any of the big box stores for example, it'd be a special-order thing through a supply house. The only companies I've seen advertising plastering are doing very niche and high-end (expensive) historical restoration stuff. I have looked into various veneer plaster systems, and I've seen HD / Lowes carrying stuff like the USG gypsum veneer systems in other parts of the country, so I guess it's more popular elsewhere.
We are thinking about something like one of the clay veneer plaster systems (ie American Clay), but tbh that's a whole 'nother kettle of worms.
The house was built in the mid-50s, and the original walls are plaster over "gypsum lath" ie thin, 2' wide drywall basically -- it does make for a very solid wall!
I know it's common to strap ceilings and plaster walls around Boston, but good luck finding plasterers outside of the Massachusetts area. There are a few restoration plasterers here and there, and maybe some drywall finishers who "will give it a go", but true plasterers are few and far between (and priced accordingly). Unfortunately the standard for much of the country has now sunk to a level 3 and spray texture. :(