Opinion on Blueridge Minisplits
benrush
| Posted in Mechanicals on
Hi All,
Does anyone have any experience with Blueridge mini-splits? They seem to be the house brand of Alpine Home Air. Any idea who makes them? Are they any good?
Thanks,
Ben
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Go with the major brands like Midea. Check out https://www.acwholesalers.com/Ductless-Air-Conditioner-Wall-Mounted-Air-Conditioners/cat1028.ac?mainCat=
Anon3 [I think it's time to share your name, by the way],
I don't think most experts would call the made-in-China Midea a "major brand."
Far more common, and more respected, are the minisplits manufactured by Fujitsu and Mitsubishi.
Made in China Gree could be considered a "major brand", but not necessarily a first tier vendor with local technical support in every US region. Gree is the largest manufacturer of this type of equipment in China, with many other HVAC equipment companies getting components or complete systems manufactured by Gree.
Midea, not so much.
I can't recall ever seeing a Midea in my neighborhood, but plenty of Mitsubishi, Fujitsu, LG, the occasional Daikin or Samsung. The rest are pretty rare (even Gree) in my area. I've noted several 1-off installations of a number of lesser known Chinese vendors, just not Midea.
Anon3 appears to know more about them than most, probably because Anon3 probably works for Midea America in one of their sales offices (I'm guessing the NJ sales office). On the Midea (China) home website there are no authorized dealers listed in either north or south America, but they have a dealer in Warsaw Poland, and another in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, none in the middle east or Africa.
http://www.midea.com/global/website_information/contact_us/dealers/
Midea America at least a has a few company sales offices in N.America, but it's not clear if there are any distributorships, or tech training center type of support:
https://us.midea.com/us/support.html
...and a couple of active R & D centers in the US (both VERY recently opened):
https://us.midea.com/us/press-release-midea-opens-etc-in-silicon-valley
http://www.midea.com/global/about_midea/News/201609/t20160903_206732.shtml
They may have a market presence somewhere in the world outside of China, but "major brand" would be a "major stretch", at least as far as the US market goes. ( At least so far... ) It's not clear what market share they have for their HVAC equipment or appliances in China, but they do manufacture a wide range of home-appliance type products, not just mini-splits. http://www.midea.com/global/
This thread is the first mention of Blueridge I've encountered.
In the US there is far more support for the Japanese & Korean mini-split vendors (even if some of their components may be sourced from Chinese or southeast Asian subcontractors. Of the Japanese vendors Daikin is the world's largest manufacturer of variable refrigerant HVAC equipment, but Mitsubishi & Fujitsu seem to have larger market share and more local support in the US. LG & Samsung are very competitive within Korea, but LG has a much bigger presence in the US.
A little late to this party but I know my Blue Ridge mini split was made by Media. The manual I have for it is a PDF that actually shows a Midea outdoor unit in the file. It is identical to the unit I purchased except for the label that says Blue Ridge. Here's what I can tell you about it.
We bought a multi head system that will handle up to 4 head units. We have 2 head units connected to it. It was installed in November of 2018 and it's now March of 2019. We kept getting P6 error codes showing up on the indoor units. They would last for about 10 seconds and then go away. Ultimately this past weekend the system quit working. I had a good technician come check it out. The problem was a bad pressure switch. Alpine will give me a new switch. I looked it up in the parts manual and its $3 and change for the part
The down side is the switch is brazed in. So, to replace it requires the entire system to be drained down, old switch removed, new switch brazed in, system leak and pressure checked and lastly the correct, weighed amount of R410 added. THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE CHEAP TO DO AND BLUE RIDGE WILL NOT COVER ANY OF THE LABOR OR r410.
Before you buy a mini split from the Internet you may want to price a unit through a company that sells, installs and services them. You may pay a little more up front but you would also likely be covered via warranty for the labor, parts & material should something like this happen to you
I'm needing control board and inverter board (both circuit boards) for my Blueridge 18000 Heat Pump. Do you have a place to acquire these parts? Not sure warranty is going to work for me.
Thanks
>"A little late to this party but I know my Blue Ridge mini split was made by Media."
I'm pretty sure it was made by Midea , not Media.
Sorry to hear that BlueRidge isn't providing better relief & warranty support after selling you a defective unit. It's almost the opposite of how Mitsubishi treated one of my relatives in WA after her 6-7 year old FE18 got fried by a major powerline fault that was in no way Mitsubishi's responsibility.
Yes...my bad typo in my previous comments....sorry. I corrected it.
I do have some updated and interesting information though. Today I called Midea support and explained the situation. The guy was very nice and sympathetic that I spoke to. He opened a case for me and our tech is to call him directly and run a few tests while they are on the phone. Midea may do something to compensate us financially. I will post back the results.
Fortunately with the problem being a switch, we were able to cut the wires on the switch side of the harness to make a jumper and got the unit working so we have heat.
I should also note the performance during severe cold. We had temps down to minus 9 degrees F. and the unit produced plenty of heat. People had told us that it would not provide heat at those low temps but they were wrong.
For the DIY guys. On all the mini splits I've seen the terminal blocks are horrible and if you rely on the factory flares for good connections you are pushing your luck. I see some of the units now, Mr. Cool to be specific, has the better type of fittings for the line set connections.
ALSO VERY IMPORTANT.... DO NOT USE NYLOG on the fittings. You will see all sorts of videos where people use it. That stuff can get in the lines and cause problems such as making valves stick open or closed. Our tech informed us about that. He's installed approximately 400 Mitsubishi split systems. The guy was excellent. Only oil should be used on the threads of the line set fittings.
One last comment regarding Personal Safety. Blue Ridge support will tell you to go ahead and remove covers on the unit to get access to the LED to get the trouble code for them. What they DO NOT tell you is that there may be 500 volts DC in the system even after you turn the breaker off!!! It takes a little time for the system to discharge after you turn off the main power source. If you ask me, Alpine is playing a dangerous game with the way they provide support. WHEN IN DOUBT........call a PRO to diagnose problems.
We heard back from Midea today. They are NOT going to cover any labor on the replacement of the bad pressure switch.
When buying a mini split system, my advice is to skip the discounted Chinese systems and get a Mitsubishi or equivalent system from Japan through a dealer / installer that will provide at least one year of labor under warranty. It's like anything you by from China.....it's cheap for a reason.
When your tech does the work with the refrigerant, you should be able to reuse your old R410 unless something failed in such a way that the system was contaminated. Techs are not permitted to vent the refrigerant to the atmosphere (there are majorly huge fines if they get caught doing this), so they have to “reclaim” the old refrigerant with a tank that usually looks a bit like a barbecue propane tank. If that tank is evacuated first, they can pull out your existing R410, store it in the reclamation tank, and then weigh it. After the repair is made and your system is evacuated, the reclaimed refrigerant can be put back in. All that should be needed is a little bit of top off if anything leaked. You can usually save some money this way. It’s a little more labor but a lot less refrigerant if your system has a decent size charge.
For the OP, I’ll second what Dana said about the Mitsubishi systems being very well supported. I’ve used tons of them at work where we spec them for use in small network equipment rooms in schools and office buildings. They are usually a “set and forget” unit with nothing to worry about, but If you do have any problems Mitsubishi support is very good and there are lots of contractors familiar with the systems.
Bill
You can not reclaim and reuse R410A refrigerant do to fractionation. It is a blended refrigerant and will not be able recovered then use over. R22 the old refrigerant was made of one part and could do that . plus anytime you reclaim refrigerant at all you will never get all of the refrigerant out of the recovery bottle. When doing leak repairs or just a simple components replacement always make sure your tech is using NEW R410A refrigerant or you could lose performance in your machine.
This is false. Reclaiming doesn't mean you can't put it back in. That's more dependent on your reclaim tank being contaminated.
Also, we don't need to reclaim to begin with. We put systems in heat mode and shift the refrigerant to the air handler. Most mini splits still have an access port after the compressor. If not, then you'd have to fully recover.
Please keep in mind Midea units are all sold under Carrier, Bryant, Tempstar, and others. And in my experience, the installer provides the one year warranty, not the OEM.
Frankly, no one in my area wants to put one in, probably because they know no one wants to spend $5k for an install. I could spend more $ for a contractor Mitsu install, but it would cost 3x more than doing it myself. So even if I have no warranty, so what? I'm already way ahead.
Carrier has bought into Midea to gain access to their manufacturing abilities.
That would be one interpretation.
Another would be that Midea bought into Carrier to gain access to their distribution networks world wide.
https://www.carrier.com/carrier/en/us/news/news-article/carrier__midea_launch_residential_ductless_hvac_joint_venture_in_north_america.aspx
http://carriermideaindia.com/
https://www.carrier.com/carrier/en/is/news/news-article/carrier_corp__and_midea_electric_to_form_manufacturing_joint_venture_in_china.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midea_Group
It's possible that Carrier will go the way of Toshiba. Toshiba's compressor technology gave Midea a big jump on their refrigeration compressor biz in 1998 with the formation of GMCC.
http://www.midea.com/global/investors/Corporate_Milestones/
They moved on to Toshiba's home appliances biz a few years ago:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2016-03/16/content_23887357.htm
http://www.midea.com/global/about_midea/News/201606/t20160630_204782.shtml
The notion that United Technologies may eventually put Carrier completely into the hands of Midea at some point on some future giga-deal isn't out of the question. Midea is one of those multi-national corporations that makes all sorts of aquisitions and joint ventures with other established companies young & old.
Mitsu combined with Trane. Daiken bought out Goodman. Carrier went with Midea.
Just capitalism hard at work.
I was curious about larrycav's post above that mentioned that there may be DC power still in a mini split after the circuit breaker is thrown. I spent last weekend replacing the main circuit board on my LG LMU 369HV outdoor unit, after throwing the breaker (I also pulled the outdoor breaker near the unit). I am happily alive, but I would like to know how this is possible-I presume that there is no battery in the unit???.
The DC voltage that may be present is due to the presence of large capacitors. These discharge gradually through the circuit after a/c power is removed. Exactly how long it takes is hard to estimate. When I used to work on equipment with components like this I would manually discharge the caps with a resistor, but that shouldn't be undertaken by a DIYer.
Installed 2 systems 2 years ago. Each was a 2.5 ton with 4 indoor units. Both were a DIY install and my HVAC guy comissioned (about $100 each). Both are in rental housing and both have operated flawlessly since installed....no problems. My HVAC guy said I saved about $15,000. If you have basic ability and a HVAC guy who will pressure test and balance the refridgerant to the line set lenghts.. then this is the way to go...
IMO, Pioneer has a better presence. They also freely document all their systems with tech manuals.
Senville also seems to enjoy a high satisfaction rating on Amazon. But their documentation sucks.
And if you want an official install, Carrier and their brands install Midea stuff.
I know this is an old link but I have installed 3 blue ridge units. The first unit I installed on my own property (electrician with universal hvac) the unit came quickly but the line set flairs were horrible re did them , no leaks, opened the valves and within 10 minutes low freon, the code was not in the documentation so i called no return call called again, low freon was the code. I recovered the system and only got 1 lb out that never has happened according to the company no nothing but the system has been running for a year the remote is a bit flaky but it cools well , not as good on heating.
the owner of the company I work for wanted me to install a unit in one of the operator cabs he knew the problems I had but liked the price. this time the line set was not shipped and UPS could not find it they said it was shipped and I would have to purchase a new set, We pulled the video of the pallet being unloaded it was clear it was not there and the shrink wrap was intact. (this all took 2 weeks before they shipped the line set) but I had already installed another line set, they called ups and us liars until it was proven they did not ship the line set.
the factory flairs would have never have sealed they were cracked horrible work , that machine is still running. my owner wanted another unit the flaky remote issue was discussed but went ahead and this time everything came but again the line sets needed to be cut off and reflaired this unit has only been in for 2 months. I was looking at a larger split for my property and doubt I will go with them the low freon and no lineset were enough for me, my owner may want another unit because of the cost but I can get other brands now online and may try another vendor.
Anyone know who is making the Mr. Cool systems? I know it's all good marketing but I've read on a few forms the quality is good and their systems work...the recharged seems like a bonus even if there is a small premium. Are they China based too?
They are made by Midea. They make a good majority of all the no name brands. When I ordered my Midea it came in a Carrier North America box with both Carrier and Midea stickers in the box. It shipped from Carrier Midea North America from Georgia. Mr Cool puts a big mark up on the units. You can get the equivalent unit from Midea/Carrier cheaper.
but does Midea/Carrier sell the DIY units that I believe he is referring to?
Not that I am aware off. All Mr Cool does is install 2 quick connect fittings and it is essentially double the price of the equivalent Midea.
I bought my Midea Premier and a full set of pro grade HVAC tools to install it and it was still cheaper than the Mr Cool. I then used the tools to go on and install about 6 other minisplits for myself and family/friends.
If your somewhat mechanically inclined these units are very easy to install.
Thanks. This is helpful. I have a number of mini splits but I have stopped having more installed because they are simply too expensive around me to have installed. I have helped install these units and they only take a few hours per head. The warrantee simply isn't worth the huge mark up for labor charged here in NJ -which seems like many times per hour what HVAC guys charge for boilers or other HVAC equipment as I have seen. The only part of install I haven't tackled is the charging. If you are saying that charging is not hard, I would be interested in that.
Just about every manufacturer has the installation instructions and complete service manuals available online. I would go through those to get an idea on the steps and tools needed.
Its the same here in CT. A 12K single Mitsubishi is like $4-5k from a Mitsubishi dealer. My Midea and Gree units have been running nonstop for almost 2 years now with no issues. They each cost a little over $1k each. If they both blow up I can still install 2 replacements and it would be still be less than 1 new dealer installed Mitsubishi.
Thanks. I may look into it. The whole point of mini splits is that it is one of the best ways to retrofit a house for energy efficiency and coupled with PV, to get close to a net zero energy balance. But the costs associated with them have made them prohibitive for all but the very wealthy. Average folks cannot afford $20,000+ to retrofit an entire house with mini splits. And so, unlike the rest of the world where mini splits have become ubiquitous because they are cheap, here they remain an novelty. have no problem with HVAC people making a living but this s not dong what we need it to do. So the ability to install these DY is a great thing. Thanks!
Good grief...$20K? I know how big a house has a lot todo with it...but you can do 4 zones for $6K if you know the right people. Sounds like a lot of poeople are getting shafted. I think a lot of installers who rely on clueless clients are taking advantage of that situation because people keep coming up with more cost effective ways. Reminds me when PEX and Shark Bites came out. The old farts argued they you house was going to explode from them but the reality is they loved leaving their trades to be voodoo for clients...when Home Deposit, You Tube and DIY attitude came into play it cut into their margins.
I suspect it's more the usual concern that the new type of fitting, pipe, installation tool, whatever will start leaking after a few years, and what happens then?
I think there are two sides to issues like this. Most HVAC guys are fair and honest but they are also business people so when there is an opportunity to make a premium they do so. Also, firms that warranty their work provide a value in the warranty that adds to their cost and your price. I also know that the HVAC licensing requirements in a state like NJ can be expensive and daunting...So I understand why mini splits installed by licensed contractors will be expensive.
The problem here is that if we are serious about fighting climate change with more efficient HVAC, particularly in retrofitting middle class homes, I fear the current economics of mini -splits just wont lead to the kind of widespread adoption we need.....even in a state like NJ, which gives $1,000 rebates for the most efficient single head units and $2,000 for multi head and ducted units.
Perhaps widespread installation by utilities on a pure cost basis might work???
They are indeed the "house brand" for alpine, and are a mid-range mini split overall. The reps will tell you they are comparable to Mitsubishi but that's simply not true. It's like saying a Mercedes is comparable to a Chevy volt. Yes, both will go from a-b, but they are vastly different. Also, do NOT buy from acwholesalers nor their sister eComfort.com. Both have 1.2 star ratings out of 5 for their horrid customer service. heatandcool.com are a better outfit. Or buy a Daikin from Amazon.